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Welcome to the Art of Being a Mum podcast where I, Alison Newman, a singer, songwriter and Aussie mum of two,

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enjoys honest and inspiring conversations with artists and creators about the joys and issues they've encountered

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while trying to be a mum and continue to create.

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You'll hear themes like the mental juggle, changes in identity, how their work's been influenced by motherhood,

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mum guilt, cultural norms and we also strain to territory such as the patriarchy, feminism and capitalism.

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You can find links to my guests and topics we discuss in the show notes along with a link to the music played,

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how to get in touch and a link to join our supportive and lively community on Instagram.

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I'll always put a trigger warning if we discuss sensitive topics on the podcast but if at any time you're concerned about your mental health

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I urge you to talk to those around you, reach out to health professionals or seek out resources online.

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I've compiled a list of international resources which can be accessed on the podcast landing page, alisonnewman.net.

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The Art of Being a Mum would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land and water

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which this podcast is recorded on as being the Bowendig people.

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I'm working on land that was never seeded.

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Hello and welcome to episode 100 of the Art of Being a Mum podcast.

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It is an absolutely amazing experience to say that I have stuck with this for 100 episodes

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and that I have been lucky enough to have 100 mums and a few dads hang out with me and want to share openly and honestly.

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And for you guys to listen. Thank you so much for being a part of this, it is such a wonderful experience for me

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and I hope it can continue. My work hours are getting a little bit more flexible so fingers crossed

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there'll be more podcasts to come. But of course in the meantime please enjoy my written article series

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which is pretty much the same as the podcast but it's completely answered by my guests.

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So I give them the questions, they write back the answers and I collate them and put it into the website.

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So you can check those out at alisonnewman.net slash articles.

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My 100th guest this week is Emma Stenhouse. Emma's an Indigenous artisan and Narangjerri woman

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and she's the mother of three children. Emma can be described as many things, Indigenous artist,

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weaver, printmaker, designer and sewist. Emma's taking the first steps on her journey to belonging

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and becoming connected with her Narangjerri heritage. Her work is predominantly inspired by nature

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and her connection to country using elements of contemporary art and traditional iconography.

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Emma ignites the flame of love for country in other hearts and minds. A multi-faceted creative

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she explores diverse practices and each piece is braided with learning, exchange between artist

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and viewer, a continuation of culture and a platform for cross-cultural exchange.

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An experienced early childhood educator Emma imparts her knowledge of culture implementing

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programming including traditional Indigenous creative practices guided by Gundurama elders.

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A gatherer and share of knowledge Emma uses this to guide her own journey. She builds capacity for

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others to learn and develop their own connections. Emma's story spans across four decades across

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desert and sea as she explores the challenges and monuments of her cultural growth, connection to

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country and being an artist. Moving through time and space from the bush to the beach her stories

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are formed by her deep relationship to land and guided by strong female role models in her community.

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Please be aware that Emma's episode contains discussions about the loss of a child.

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Throughout today's episode you'll hear music from Indigenous Australians, our First Nations people

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and this is used with permission. Thank you so much for tuning in again it is such a

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such a momentous moment such a moment to be celebrating 100 episodes and I'm so thrilled

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that you're here and I hope that you'll hang out with me again in the future.

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Thank you so much Emma it's a pleasure to welcome you to the podcast today thanks for coming on.

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Thank you very much for having me I'm very excited. Oh awesome so you're in Western Victoria

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in Warrnambool which isn't that far from me which is pretty exciting. I think you're the

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closest person I've had on apart from people in my own town. Oh wow um yeah I've been to Warrnambool

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I've been to Mount Gambier a couple of times um just for work so I haven't really been over there

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to check it out too much but um I'd love to go over and have a wander around there's some lakes

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or something close by to you guys that I want to go yeah swimming in. Yes oh yes so we've got the

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Blue Lake which is like our water source which is like the most beautiful blue sort of November

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onwards um but yes the little blue lake is that's our like local swimming spot that we love to go

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like our family um and it's like a just a just a sinkhole in the middle of a paddock out in the

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middle of nowhere and it's freezing most of the time but for a very short period of time in summer

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it's really really good so it's pretty popular. I'm used to the colds um yeah I actually don't go

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in the water here without a wetsuit so I'm a country kid I'm originally from Broken Hill so I

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grew up um in the desert and loving the heat so it's been a real um shock to the sister moving

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here and adjusting to the climate because it's always so cold. Oh yeah look I can I can relate

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to that and you're probably even colder than what we are because you're right near the ocean like

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on the ocean there aren't you? Yeah we're literally um a block back from the beach so the wind is you

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know always quite strong and very chilly. Yeah now my um mum used to have a horse that used to get

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trained over there and they'd always send us videos of the horses like paddling in the water and I

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always think god that looks so cold those poor horses. I know I know I walk the beach every day

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and um watch them train the horses and yeah often just shudder looking at them and the jockeys who

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who do actually like get in with them and oh yeah not my not my cup of tea but it is lovely to watch.

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Yeah yeah no it'd be good having that around um so do you mind me asking what what brought you to

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Born & Poop? Yeah so my husband's job we um both of us are born and bred in Broken Hill um and

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I guess we went on a bit of a five-week holiday along the south coast of New South Wales

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with our two sons um in a camper trailer and kind of did the off-grid thing a little bit

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and then sort of moved back to town and thought oh why are we living here like it's beautiful

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um and it's home but just the opportunities um for our kids just yeah I guess it's quite isolated

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to live you know um in the far west of New South Wales so yeah my husband decided to try for a

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sea change so he applied for the job in um Warrnambool and we told everyone a big fat lie

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and told them we were going to Melbourne for the weekend and we secretly came to Warrnambool and

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spent three days here and he had his interview and we you know scoped the place out and checked out

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the schools and you know wondered if it would be okay for us to live here and then yeah um

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he sort of got the call and said you've got the job and he left within sort of two weeks and

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yeah I stayed home in Broken Hill with the kids until Lucky finished high school and then we moved

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yeah just before Christmas so um I haven't looked back I mean it's the complete opposite um but I

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feel really blessed I guess to have two beautiful homes that are so different to each other

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um yeah absolutely I love that that's a great great yeah best of both worlds yeah that's it

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So you're an artist can you tell everyone what sort of style of art that you make

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and what sort of mediums that you use? Sure so um I'm an Indigenous artist um a contemporary

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Indigenous artist so I use traditional iconography um in a contemporary way I guess and my art is

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about storytelling uh and the stories that I um create I guess uh sort of speak to um my journey

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um in connecting to culture but also the strong women that have um guided me through this process

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um I guess I was I sort of always knew I was Aboriginal but hadn't had that really strong

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guidance in my life up until I turned 40 and sort of went oh this is missing in my life so

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yeah just re-established those um family connections and um yeah now really lucky

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to be a full-time artist so um as far as my artwork I paint in I paint with acrylics um but

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I kind of I can't limit myself I like to have a go at everything so um I've been making my own

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ochre um watercolour that's sort of been happening the last couple of weeks um

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with sort of guidance from lovely um Aboriginal elders and yeah I love printmaking just any

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any sort of medium I guess um I'll have a crack at it. Well that'd keep things interesting though

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wouldn't it like if you said I don't get bored at all. Yeah absolutely I've actually got one of your

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when you said on the email that your your artwork is at Green Door here in Mount Gambier and I've

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actually got um I can't remember what it was called now but it's um it's pink and it sort of

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goes in an arch. Oh yep. And there was a blue one that was kind of similar and um yeah unfortunately

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I'm not in the normal place I am for recording you'd be able to see it behind me which would

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have been really cool. I'm very grateful to Annie um she's been um a wonderful support to me but

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not just me I mean female artists in general she has just really helped just all I guess um

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yeah put ourselves out there a bit more and have that sort of

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just that kind support she's she's just such a lovely warm person and really genuine um so yeah

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I do feel really lucky and I know sort of um some of the other artists who have their work there

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feel the same so very blessed. Yeah shout out to Annie if she's listening.

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Oh dear.

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Were you always um into painting and creating growing up?

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Absolutely I can't actually remember a time where I wasn't making something so I remember

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being a kid and you know just doing little drawings for my aunties um

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my Nan was a dressmaker so I loved to watch her sew um and that's sort of something I had to go

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at I guess um in my 30s that was that became quite a passion for me learning to sew and um

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getting my all my Nan's old beautiful buttons and things like that and just um developing a real

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strong sort of sense of textile and pattern and surface design um and then I've yeah I've

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went through another stage where it was all about screen printing so I went and you know got when

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I did some courses and um yeah I had a little shop in Broken Hill where I used to run screen

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printing workshops and I'd teach you know anyone I guess from sort of five years old up to 101 was

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I went out to the nursing home and did a um we made tea towels with the residents out there and

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yeah I was really lucky to I just yeah meeting people through my arts practice is like the biggest

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gift ever. Yeah yeah and having that community and being able to share common a common interest

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with people. Yeah absolutely yeah. So you mentioned that you're you've got your Indigenous heritage

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has that always inspired what you're creating? It's always uh it's always been there in terms

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of like I've had such a strong connection to country and nature like I think that's just an

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innate thing that I've I've always had I've always been that outside kid and been fascinated in in

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nature like you know just the simple things like a leaf you know the veins on a leaf they they're

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captivating um you know dragonflies lizards all sorts of things I was the kid that was always

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came home with you know a pocket full of rocks and a stick and you know a leaf or a feather

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um so just having that real connection to country I think and then sort of you know in the last few

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years really connecting with um with my family and learning learning about culture but on so many

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different deeper levels um and just I guess allowing myself to acknowledge that knowing that

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I've always had but um haven't had the guidance from family to to help me explore that. Yeah yeah

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and yeah to sort of to take you into those deeper places and you talk about the um the traditional

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imagery that you use was that something that you'd always sort of done or has that sort of come in

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more since you sort of connected? I've always I've always had a like I don't know I've always had

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like um like questions and are wondering like where does where do I fit in in all of this

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um like growing up in Broken Hill my dad um was Aboriginal but he left so I sort of grew up um

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just with my mum and my brother and we you know we lived in a commission house on the outskirts of

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town um there were a lot of other Aboriginal people and families that lived in our street

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but I had really fair skin compared to them so I didn't sort of feel like I fitted in there

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and then I was sort of too dark to be you know like one of the white kids I suppose so I've

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always had this sort of feeling that I never sort of quite fitted in and I think that's led me to

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want to explore like in a lot of aspects of life just I've always had that curiosity I suppose

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and so yeah I've really um consciously been I guess just peeling back layers if you will trying

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to find out as much as I can not just about my family but um you know but culture in general and

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and the traditional practices and how they've um how they've evolved over the years um you know

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things even though we're still practicing the same art forms they've obviously you know evolved and

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changed so I guess celebrating that and that learning where it comes from because that's

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I guess that's the essence of it for me like that that the traditional stuff.

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Mm-hmm yeah and I think um look coming from someone that has no education sort of not a

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great understanding of Indigenous culture I like I love the patterns and the colours that people

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use like the contemporary Indigenous art and it's just it seems so um flippant to just say

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that I like the patterns and the colours because it's such a there's so much deeper meaning in that

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and the story that that that it actually tells if you know what I mean like there's just so much

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depth in this that it's like you can't just look at it and go that looks nice you know what I mean

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that would be just doing it like a disservice if that makes sense. Yeah absolutely yeah um and

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that's interesting just because I don't know I think you know in the past sort of 10 years people

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are becoming more aware and more connected to Aboriginal art like it's been viewed you know

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around the world with such like wonder and you know the beauty of it but I guess people are

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understanding that connection now so when we paint you know we're painting our story so um

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yeah I think I think it's changing at the moment and that's really nice because that allows us to

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connect with each other and I think you know after COVID we're all sort of like

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leaning into that a bit more. Yeah looking for that looking for that connection and

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meaning deeper meaning of life I think in general yeah people are striving for yeah.

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So you mentioned uh your children briefly how many children you said you had two boys?

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Yeah so I have um my eldest is 18 um and he's just finished high school and I feel really old but I

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have an 18 year old son and can't believe it because it just happened in the blink of an eye

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um and I have a 12 year old um son as well and he's just started high school so

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it's that's all very new um and I just do want to acknowledge like I also have um a daughter who

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would have been um 15 this year and she yeah she passed away um the day that she was born but she's

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sort of been a very big part of my life and I acknowledge her I guess in all that I do um

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having that experience um sort of changed me profoundly in a lot of ways but it's given me

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the perspective that like life's short and if you want to do something then you just you should just

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jump in and have a go like you don't really have anything to lose you like what's the worst that

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can happen I feel like I've already been through the worst so yeah you know just having that

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different perspective and and again you know that's what I guess that brings me back to like that

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wanting to connect to family and knowing more about myself and where I've come from and

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yeah I'm sorry sorry to hear about your daughter that's thank you um thank you for sharing it

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with us it's a it's you know it's a heartbreaking thing to live with um

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I guess all I can say is that I've tried to focus on the positive things that have come from that

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like the beautiful relationships that I've um have with other women and families who have been

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through the same thing um and just my work with Red Nose so I um I work with Red Nose

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at the moment through their Reconciliation Action Plan so um their WRAP um and just anyway I

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and anyway I can support them because that like they've been a great support to my family.

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No that's not that's really lovely so for people who who might not be familiar the Red Nose um

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involved with the SIDS. So they were they were they're formerly um SIDS and KIDS yeah and they

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amalgamated with SANS which is a South Australian organisation as well so they provide sort of

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education and support um and wonderful programs I guess for families like mine who were quite

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isolated at that time we in Broken Hill we didn't have any like we didn't even have a grief counsellor

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so um I sort of took it upon myself to um get some help not just for me there are a lot of other

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women in the community as well so um I reached out to Red Nose and was lucky enough to have an

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educator come out to Broken Hill and spend time with families but also the health professionals

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as well um just giving them education on how to better support um families who have gone through

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the loss of a child so yeah as much as things were you know really hard at that time I feel like I

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tried to I don't know make positive choices in that situation yeah um sort of helped me

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get through that time yeah and to be able to gain that help for other people and

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I guess there's always a sense of you know you don't you wouldn't wish this on anyone sort of

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feeling so you know you're giving that that help to other people in your community as well

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yeah absolutely but also um I guess you know we've come a long way I have in my family I guess I

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was the third generation who had like lost a child so I had an auntie who'd lost a child and my

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grandmother had lost children as well so just knowing their experience and how unfortunately

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how it was dealt with you know back in those days to how far we've come right now um and the work

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that I'm doing with SIDS and Kids is now about you know getting education out to remote communities

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as well so particularly um you know our remote Aboriginal communities all over the country who

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yeah just need a bit more support and um yeah it's it's a it's a tricky thing there's a lot

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sort of culturally that's you know it's hard like language you know barriers and just just distance

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I guess and access to services so uh that's something I'm very passionate about as well

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hmm yeah good on you for doing that

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when you had you when you first became a mum did you go through like a really big sort of shift in

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your identity where you sort of went who am I now you know am I still Emma I'm someone's mom like

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where do where do I sort of fit in to this yeah oh and I think we all do like it's just that's just

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um goes hand in hand with when you become a parent I when I had Lockie um

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um oh gosh I remember just being so full of anxiety you know am I doing this right what am

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I doing oh he's crying all the time he won't settle for me you know just that total lack of

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confidence um that you have when you're a new mum even though like I had an amazing group of

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friends and my my mum was amazing like I had lots of support um but I found like the first probably

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12 months sort of quite challenging um and then I don't know has as he got older and I felt like

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things got easier and I sort of found my way um I just loved every minute like him and I had such a

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close um relationship you know I stayed at home until he went to school um and then I sort of I

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studied early childhood education as well um because I just thought well I don't have the tools

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so if I go and do a bit of study that's only going to help my relationship you know with my kids so

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and that's been that's been a huge part of my life and still is like that the education and

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that sharing with children is just I don't know they're just amazing like they just have that

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joy that we sort of lose as we get older um and working with them just keeps that sort of relevant

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for me it's still it's always there that joy that they have that sense of wonder at the world and

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yeah I love that totally relate to that I'm an early childhood educator I work in a kindy at the

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moment and it's like they just keep you so like grounded on what's actually important in life and

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what's happening right in front of you oh absolutely you know the worst thing might have happened this

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morning like at home if you know not the worst thing but you know the boys might have given me

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trouble getting them up they didn't want to get up or they can't find their shoes or whatever but

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at work it's like someone finds a rock and that is like the center of attention like this rock

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where did it come from what is it what does it do you know it just brings you back to this

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basis that sense of curiosity and I think that's why I've just been really passionate about early

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childhood education for like the best part of 15 years it's played a huge role in my life

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yeah and I'm really lucky now that I get to go and work in schools sort of with my arts practice and

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sharing like my art techniques and just you know general art I guess techniques and different

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mediums but coupling that with culture as well and just they're like little sponges you know like

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they have just you share one thing with them and you know that that's the thing that they're going

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to go home and talk to their parents about like it's yeah it's amazing it's so much fun it is

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isn't it I just absolutely love it I only came to the industry probably 10 years ago and I just wish

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I had a founder earlier because it's just the best it just keeps you just so I don't know on this other

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level of looking at life I don't know oh and they definitely keep you grounded as well like you know

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you can't like if you haven't been to the hairdresser for a little while and you've got some

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sparkles on the side you know first thing they point out oh geez emma you're looking a bit

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your hair's looking a bit strange today or you've got sparkles in your hair oh yeah I know

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oh nothing gets past them does it they're just so honest so honest

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do you like I know I think it's formally called like artist in residence like do you go into the

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schools and like work in on that sort of capacity with the children yeah well essentially yeah I've

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we I do still call it like an artist in residence so um I have been who in the last little while so

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I went out to work in a bill um you know again that's that like just that when you live remotely

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you don't have the same opportunities as what you do like when you're in a more regional area so

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I'm passionate about you know going out and sharing that with with those kids and they're like

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yeah they have a completely different perspective on everything as well um last week I was over in

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Camperdown and helped um Camperdown college we had six students um in the junior school and then 12

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in the senior school and we created two murals so um yeah it's just expanding I guess their knowledge

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about culture but also reminding them to like not lose their wonder about how amazing nature is um

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yeah and it's interesting like I present a nature collage and just you know when they come up and

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grab the different uh bits and pieces of nature that I've collected you know that just that

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oh like remember when we went to the beach and you know I went to the beach with my family and I saw a

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shell like this or um you know just different bird feathers you know they'll talk about like the one

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time that they got swooped by a magpie and you know just the stories and then I guess that just

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reminds them to be yeah more connected to what's actually around them you know we're such a tech

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a tech heavy society these days so getting back to nature is beneficial like on so you know there's

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there's a gazillion studies about it but just go for a walk and yeah pick up a leaf and have a look

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at it or just go to the beach and have a wander you never know what you're going to find so um

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yeah just that just that gentle reminder to be aware and um be connected. Yeah and the noticing

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of things like I've like we're doing this term we're doing a book called um garden stew so it's all

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the ingredients are all things we find in nature and there's this lovely little quokka that's like

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the star of the book who's gathering all these things together so I've been asking my children

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about just things they notice not necessarily at kindy but when they're on their way to kindy or

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at home and some of the things that they share it's like you plant that little seed and then they

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just start that it's like the whole world's open and like oh I noticed this and I noticed that and

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there's a tree in my backyard I never realized it has these different color leaves and it's just so

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I just love that it's just like boom and it all comes and seeing things in a different way and

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yeah yeah I love it that just that's I guess that's the stuff that fills my cup up um yeah

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so yeah I've done I did camp it down last week I'm heading into work with um two Catholic schools

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in Melbourne and then I come home Friday night and then I head off to Ararat for um a week to work

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with students over there again um we're creating a mural and um I guess I just sort of see my role

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as a facilitator the work the work is like their story and their voice I just sort of give them

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literally the tools and a bit of guidance to help create their own story because I think um

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um it's always really important to share your own story but to hear other people's as well

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yeah that's it isn't there's no point going into to a particular area um and you know putting out

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what you you think or what you feel or whatever it's yeah because we are so different and you

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talked about you know these tiny towns like this Warwick and Beale and Camberdown like they're in

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the middle of like literally nowhere you know it's very different to you know say Waterville so

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everyone's got their their own particular stories that relevant to where they are and how they

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experience life yeah absolutely and it's interesting I guess like just going to Warwick and Beale you

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know the pride that these kids have that they're farm kids and you know they grow they grow the

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stuff that helps the rest of us you know each like it yeah they're so proud of that um and even you

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know in Camberdown you know they they all have farms like they're on dairy farms you know that

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they have whole industries and they know so much about it that you know I was like oh well tell me

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you know what what happens here and what happens there and how many times a year do you guys you

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know harvest your crops and yeah and it was just amazing and these little kids at kinder you know

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their parents were bringing in bags of grain and um chickpeas and stuff that they'd grown at their

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house and I was it was fascinating like really fascinating like just to have that okay it goes

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from like a dust bowl out here in Warwick and Beale on their farm to you know like in our food it's

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but kids have made that connection and it's yeah it's amazing just the pride that they have knowing

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that like their family's contributing that they're literally feeding the rest of Australia yeah it's

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pretty massive thing isn't it I guess it's easy to kind of feel forgotten about when you're you know

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you know um living a bit more remotely than other people but yeah that was and we we really

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celebrated that like in my time there that that um you know they they are really contributing and

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like I would love to go back out there and spend some more time um I guess from me personally just

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learning from them I mean I've not grown up in that environment so yeah yeah that's good isn't

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it and I do love that they're so proud and they should be it's it's wonderful and I think actually

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a lot of city people could kind of learn a lot from them about you know your food doesn't just

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appear in a box or in a packet it actually comes from somewhere and from people working hard and

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you know like I said she actually brought me in you know um all the different things that they

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grow on their farm and the kids were like can you take when you go into the city can you take this

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you know to show the kids and I was like yeah absolutely love that yes yeah yeah because it

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was something I can't even remember what it was now but something's in my mind about the number

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of kids that didn't really know where milk came from I don't know if that I'm thinking of an

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American thing or not and it kind of I thought how could you not know where your milk came from

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like to out to me it's just it's obvious but you know maybe it's not that obvious and then

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someone's told you or you've seen it I don't know I don't know it's like you're right and then I

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guess we talked a lot about um you know they're they're growing things they're living off the

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land and I guess then we link that back to you know um like Aboriginal culture like bush tucker

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that we've we've had these things available to us and if we look after country then you know country

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looks after us so it was really nice to explore those two things sort of side by side as well and

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them then sort of understanding that I mean I grew up sort of you know in a really sort of remote

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place and you'd go out like we were on a property at times and you'd go out there and you'd think

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there's nothing out here like nothing grows and then you know you'd go for a little drive in the

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car and there'd be like a few kwangdong trees you know and then like say like there's food there's

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stuff out there if you know about it so yeah you know that's been interesting for me I guess on my

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own personal journey just um like learning about all the different sort of bush tucker and and

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things like that I've always had that interest anyway but um yeah like digging a bit deeper into

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it so it's been great

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so

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yeah and you mentioned before about um your watercolors that you're making your ochre

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watercolors that would be fascinating too like finding out what color what things make what color

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and that sort of thing yeah and just I guess um like the fascination in how it was made traditionally

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so you know like I go to a school and I'll say to the kids you know what what can you tell me about

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aboriginal art and they'll say you know oh they made paint from rocks and I'm like yeah yeah

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that happened you know so do you know how that happened like oh you know yeah they ground it

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up and they add a bit of water and the second that you tell them that like it needs a binding agent

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you know like it needs to stick together and you and you tell them that you know like traditionally

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we might have used um animal blood or tree sap you know the eyes got bigger sources and you know

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oh how does that happen and you know so just even in exploring like the traditional processes in my

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learning I'm able to then share that with um the kids as well and I went to the Northern Territory

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last year and just was completely fascinated by the rock art and just to know that like that's been

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there for 600 years and that paint that ochre has lasted you know 600 years in a cave yeah and yet

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you know we can go and paint a house and within five years it's faded so yeah it's pretty amazing

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isn't it it's pretty amazing that those just those basic you know elements of nature and you're able

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to create something that lasts you know well beyond our own years and then you've yeah it's amazing

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and I think you know growing up being that collector I've always like yep oh there's a red

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rock or there's a you know that one's white or you know I've always I actually have a collection

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of rocks um probably a bit odd for a 44 I could relate to that too yeah and when you grow up in

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a mining town it's kind of you kind of just yeah it's another it's just a thing yeah it would just

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be part of your of your daily life like just finding interesting rocks it would just you know

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it'd be great yeah I know it's yeah it's weird I quite often laugh that I like just

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innately am like a gatherer and a collector and I think about my ancestors and the women who went

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before me and that was kind of their role as well and it's comforting I guess to know that

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like I'm still doing that and that's going to be passed on in my family as well that yeah just that

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value in nature. Absolutely I love that um I've got a thing like that like with your rocks mine's

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feathers I'm obsessed with feathers and I just oh my oh I just I don't know what it is about and

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whether it's I don't know I like I love birds I think birds are just the most amazing things and

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I have my little favorites that come around to the house and whatever and have a chat with the mag

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pots and things and so I just I don't know it's like you've got this there's this they're so

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unattainable because they can just go you know then they can go wherever they like and they're

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free and to just have a little piece of that is I don't know maybe that's why I like I can hold it

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close to me I don't know it's a funny thing. I know it's a treasure it's a treasure because it's

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a moment in time that's just just that moment I suppose. Yeah yeah and you can't replicate it

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you know as much as I try. And it's interesting like why um you know different different mobs and

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stuff have different um totems and mine is a Willy Wagtail. Ah that's so interesting because

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I've had a Willy Wagtail never before in the last three or four days has been at my front door with

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his beautiful little whistle and I'm like what are you here for like it's still very interesting.

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My family have explained to me that they're messenger birds um so like black and white I

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guess you know good messages bad messages when you when you're a Willy Wagtail you don't have a choice

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to have to share the message whether it's good or bad that's that's kind of your your burden or your

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your role I guess so um yeah just fascinated I love birds as well just fascinated by I guess again

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that's another just a deeper learning that that I've been lucky enough to um have had shared with

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me and yeah. Yeah just on birds just slightly off topic though do you get um carawongs over where

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you are? No we don't we have the most amazing um superb fairy wrens you know the little good ones.

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Yes yes they're divine but it sucks out only the boys get to be beautiful don't they and the little

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girls. Oh I'm just saying with peacocks it's funny oh yes that's so true. I take peacock feathers um

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in my little nature collage kit and I always say to the kids you know so these beautiful ones are

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they the boy ones or the girl ones and the boy and the boys like oh no yeah they're the boy ones

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because they use them to attract the girl ones like yeah they do like you know they show off for

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the ladies and they just get hilarious. Yeah I always find that interesting in nature that the

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boys get to be so bright and exuberant and then the girls are brown it's like hang on a sec.

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I know we're too busy right we're too busy oh I don't know what it is I have to show you

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while we're chatting and you know yeah um my auntie sent me these um oh they're magnificent.

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Yeah are they oh treasures like they are beautiful so yeah I'll share with the listeners

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they're um they're well they're red black what are they called black red black oh you say it.

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Yeah the the cockatoos you know the red tail black cockatoos yes the black ones yes oh they

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are the most amazing birds but they are divine so yeah I'm like oh my god they're a treasure but

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like I want to use them but then like they're too precious you don't want to use them yeah I know

384

00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:20,040

what you mean yeah I've got one like that but it's the yellow one um we get the yellow tail ones

385

00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:25,560

they fly yes between because we've got a lot of pine you know pine plantations here and they fly

386

00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,640

between the plantations and every afternoon they come right over the top of my house and there's

387

00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:35,080

only about four sometimes five and they just call to each other as they're going I'm like oh there

388

00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:42,280

they go again it's just so special. And every crazy bird people oh I'm sure there's someone

389

00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:49,160

else listening that gets this isn't there there's got to be. Well I don't know I'll own it anyway

390

00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:57,320

I have no shame. I don't apologize for it I love it and I tell the kids about it at work and last

391

00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:03,480

year there was one little girl who just loved cockatoos and I told her that my mum has a pet

392

00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:10,440

cocky and she ended up just becoming so attached to this bird like I'd bring in photos and videos

393

00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:15,720

of this bird and I said to mum do you think we could bring her in for a visit and mum's like oh

394

00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:21,480

I don't think so Alison because she can be quite moody you know she's got a bit of a bite on her

395

00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:28,040

yes so we decided against that but even yeah this year even though that little girl's going to school

396

00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:33,720

one of her little friends often asks me how's cocky going it's like it's just so lovely that

397

00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:38,440

they remember this and because she's got such a personality and in some of the videos she'd just

398

00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:46,280

do the funniest things and so oh my gosh she's just a cracker she just loves life like that bit

399

00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,520

yes that's what I was about to say I think that's why I like them so much because they

400

00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:57,960

they do have distinct personalities and they're just they're they're just like people like

401

00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,480

they know what they like and what they don't like and what people they like and what people they

402

00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:08,760

don't like I love emus as well I think you know growing up I was always like oh they're so

403

00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:15,880

beautiful and and then you go to tower hill here which is um just outside of warnable and you know

404

00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:20,680

they're so used to people they sort of come right up to you and you think oh god they're gonna like

405

00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,600

for that second that little bit of fear creeps in and you're like okay I'll just put my hand

406

00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:33,240

out so that I'm taller than them and that'll scare them away and and then at the same time I'm like

407

00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:39,720

following them hoping that they might like drop a feather or something I did that recently actually

408

00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:45,880

it's my son my eldest son Alex he loves emus he's just got this thing for emus wherever we go if he

409

00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:50,920

sees one he'll just go over to it and just like like obviously this isn't in the wild because

410

00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:57,400

they run away from us um but yeah like where were we we're on the gold coast recently at the uh

411

00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:04,200

carowar no what was it called um carumbin burn sanctuary and there was this emu up there and I

412

00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:09,560

was patting him and I was hoping that one of his beautiful feathers would just fall out conveniently

413

00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,880

accidentally you know I kind of got a hold one I thought no Alison don't do it

414

00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:20,760

it's like my son's up up at his face and like distracting or like trying to nick

415

00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:25,640

feathers no that wouldn't have been very kind so no I didn't do that but I did cross my mind

416

00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:33,640

oh my gosh I'm a forager I'd be too scared I don't take yeah I only take what's what's already

417

00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:40,600

dropped on the grip yes yes yes no that that's very funny um yeah thanks for indulging my bird

418

00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:46,840

talk there oh that's okay that's fine I've actually like I've been painting emu feathers like just

419

00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:56,200

so inspired by them um just the little detail and how fine and soft they are and yeah they're pretty

420

00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:01,960

amazing like I don't know if people might have to google them but they are incredibly small like

421

00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,920

when like you see this bird but then the like when you take it like they're like ostrich feathers

422

00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:11,160

kind of where they've got like all the strings but then on the strands they're just so minute

423

00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:15,880

I know incredible aren't they yep they make them go blind painting them like

424

00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:25,080

could have picked a simpler feather so and then you know they're okay emu feathers and then dragon

425

00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:37,960

fly so yeah yeah yeah all those tiny little veins detail it's all about the detail oh goodness

426

00:47:55,880 --> 00:48:03,560

did you find that after you became a mum that your painting changed like whether the way you

427

00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:12,440

had to do the work or what inspired you changed after you became a mum well that's a good question

428

00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:22,840

um I think I don't know my poor kids whenever I do something they're just it's just around them

429

00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:31,160

like they're just yeah so at the moment like we're in a small townhouse and I've literally got you

430

00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:36,760

know seven or eight canvases on the go around me so yeah they've always been surrounded by whatever

431

00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:42,760

um whatever I'm creating so you know whether it's sewing you know when they were

432

00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:48,120

younger and I was screen printing you know we'd like we would have fun doing it together like

433

00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:54,920

I feel like that they've always been um involved in some way like and I've

434

00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:02,280

I've really tried to nurture that in them you know and I guess they're a bit older now and it's not

435

00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:07,400

really their their thing but that was a really strong connection for us to have like when they

436

00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:15,320

were younger that we did these things together and they were a part of yeah whatever whatever I was

437

00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:20,920

doing and even now you know like I'm making the ochre and stuff and Fraser who's 12 you know he'll

438

00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:28,280

come over and like so what what are you doing you know um yeah I think I just I don't know I think

439

00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:34,680

again it's that I just have the I just want to share what I'm doing with them like and so then

440

00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:42,760

yeah they they are a part of it as well um and it's hard when you work from home to separate

441

00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:49,080

those two things as well um and I've been lucky that I have been able to spend a lot of time in

442

00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:56,520

my arts practice working at home so yeah um yeah I don't know it's I think it's an inclusive

443

00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:03,320

sort of style I guess that I've wanted to include them as much as I can in whatever I'm doing

444

00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:10,760

yeah and teach them as well I mean you know they've they both can sew and they probably could

445

00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:17,480

whip up a screen print if you reminded them how to do it but you know that's not cool now but you

446

00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:24,440

know yeah I know what you mean so they'll be able to darn their socks get hold of them

447

00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:30,680

when after a lot of maybe I don't know I don't know some things might have gone in one ear and

448

00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:44,440

out the other but anyway skills for life right yeah that's it yeah

449

00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:07,640

So within that it was there an element of also wanting them to see that their mum can also do

450

00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:13,000

things that don't involve being their mum so you can do things just for yourself?

451

00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:19,160

Oh I think we've I think my husband and I have raised our kids to

452

00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,640

want to explore things like whatever it is you know whatever their passions are yep go and have

453

00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:32,200

a crack you know like if you want to try karate go and go and try it like have your own identity as

454

00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:38,680

well like you you know home and your family will always be your safe space but don't be scared to

455

00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:45,000

go out and try other things and I and I think that probably sort of was amplified after Asher died

456

00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:53,640

like Loki was three and a half when that happened you know so I guess for that that couple of years

457

00:51:53,640 --> 00:52:04,600

after that I guess like sewing became my grief work that was what I sort of used to help me through

458

00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:14,760

that time and so it's always been my sort of safe place to come back to and I think my kids just see

459

00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:21,080

that as my creativity is just part of my identity and you know they're kind of they're not really

460

00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:30,040

separated yeah but I guess yeah it just comes back to like have a go at something if you want to

461

00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,960

if you want to try it have a go like you don't have anything to lose

462

00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:39,960

yeah it's great advice isn't it like you said life's short and you just if you want to do

463

00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:46,840

something just make find a way to do it yeah I mean look I you know I probably in hindsight

464

00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:51,960

there's probably a few things I maybe should have pondered a little bit more like um you know when

465

00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:57,160

I had my shop in Broken Hill I started it with like 70 bucks and I was like oh yeah I'll just

466

00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:03,640

have a shop and you know you know rounded up a few bits of furniture and had a friend make me a bench

467

00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:09,720

and away we went we sort of you know just yeah you don't have to have the best of everything but you

468

00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:16,520

you can still try things it's it's not necessarily about you know going out and buying all of the

469

00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:22,600

stuff for whatever it is it's just having a little taste of everything and and sort of really finding

470

00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:30,520

what makes you feel content yeah yeah and you can always build on things as you go you don't

471

00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:36,680

always have to have it all ready to go right at the start yeah yeah and I think also as well just that

472

00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:44,920

um that creativity is so good for like self-regulation not just for adults but

473

00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:52,760

for kids as well and I think um you know maybe COVID highlighted that for all of us like we

474

00:53:52,760 --> 00:54:01,000

we did have that time to slow down and and stop and go slow and take things in um

475

00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:08,040

yeah I don't know yeah just something I'm throwing out no but that's the thing isn't it when you've

476

00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:13,240

got time you can actually think about what you enjoy doing and what sort of like you said fills

477

00:54:13,240 --> 00:54:19,400

you up and makes you feel good and yeah having I think in life we don't get those times unless we

478

00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:25,480

truly seek them out yeah it's like life just goes and goes and goes and goes um yeah so I think

479

00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:30,200

yeah it's so important to have something that's yours I really think especially as a mum and even

480

00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:36,200

in a partnership you know having something that that you know you don't always have to do everything

481

00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,960

with your partner you don't have to share every single interest you can have things that you want

482

00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:47,640

to do that don't involve anyone else uh my husband's just um started a punk band that oh good for him

483

00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:53,960

so like he's just you know that's his thing he goes off and does that um I think our kids

484

00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:59,640

I don't know they they always say to us you know how proud they are that you know like dad's

485

00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:04,360

dad's got the guts to get up and sing in front of other people whereas I there's no way I

486

00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:11,960

could do that um but you know being in situations I guess with my um arts practice and

487

00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:18,120

you know like collabs and different things where it's been quite public my kids are really proud

488

00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:24,840

of that that I've like put myself out there um and even you know when you do those things sometimes

489

00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:31,400

like they can be quite challenging as well so I think modeling how you handle that's really

490

00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:38,680

important as well for your kids you know I think they're always like you know sunshine and lollipops

491

00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:44,520

and you've got to learn to navigate the hard things as well yes that that's it isn't it if

492

00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:49,160

they're not just seeing the outcome if it's all positive that's great but they're actually seeing

493

00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:54,360

the process and you know working through things like you said if things aren't quite going how

494

00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:59,080

you expect how you deal with that and that's that's so important because as we know kids

495

00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:04,440

they learn from what they see you're not necessarily what you tell them so very true

496

00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:27,400

a

497

00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:37,480

One of the things I like to talk to all my guests about is this concept of mum guilt

498

00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:42,680

and I put that in air quotes because it's such a contrived term, like it's a term that's

499

00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:54,120

been made up, I think, by Western society. Do you have any thoughts on mum guilt?

500

00:56:54,120 --> 00:57:05,440

It's almost palpable at times for me, just that, I don't know, I guess in the last couple

501

00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:11,760

of years I've really like travelled a lot for work and I've been away and last year

502

00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:16,480

I was away a lot while Lockie was doing Year 12 and I sort of thought, oh I really need

503

00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:24,320

to be at home more. But then I was really proud of him because he was able to achieve

504

00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:29,800

great things even when I wasn't there, I mean, I wasn't physically here, I was obviously

505

00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:36,240

like calling and all that sort of stuff. But yeah, I do find it really tricky to have that

506

00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:44,400

balance where you're giving everyone enough of yourself and then still filling your own

507

00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:51,840

cup up. So yeah, I do feel like I get pulled in a lot of different directions quite often

508

00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:58,240

and I know my kids are proud of me for going out there and doing things but then I guess

509

00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:03,440

it's something that I put on myself, that I have that, oh I should be at home. But then

510

00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:10,320

I don't, I've never had that traditional sense that I need to be a homemaker either, that's

511

00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:20,360

not part of my life that I've sort of, I don't know, wanted to explore. Like I love being

512

00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:25,820

at home and I am a real homebody when I'm at home but I also love getting out and like

513

00:58:25,820 --> 00:58:32,320

experiencing new things. But even when I've been able to do that, I guess like last year

514

00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:35,160

I said I went to the Northern Territory, I would have loved for my kids to have been

515

00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:44,240

there and so yeah, I don't know, it's a tricky thing. I don't know if it's something that

516

00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:50,680

I like let anyone else sort of put on me but I certainly feel a bit torn at times, you

517

00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:55,360

know, am I spending too much time away or am I home enough or yeah.

518

00:58:55,360 --> 00:59:00,920

Yeah, that is something that someone said the other day, those exact words, it's not

519

00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:07,280

something anyone else is putting on me, that's me saying this stuff. And it's like then it

520

00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,400

makes it tricky then because it's like it's up to you to try and not think that stuff,

521

00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,920

you know, it's challenging.

522

00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:22,160

It really is but you know, we're lucky now in that you know, like our kids have phones,

523

00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:28,200

you know, you can always just give them a ring, your FaceTime or whatever and you know,

524

00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:35,160

you can maintain that connection I suppose that maybe you couldn't have a few years ago.

525

00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:36,680

Yeah, that's so true.

526

00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:44,920

It's easier to stay in touch and I think I made a very conscious decision like this year

527

00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:49,080

to wherever I can involve my family a bit more in, you know, if I'm travelling into

528

00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:53,200

Melbourne or whatever and if I'm in there for a couple of weeks like the boys come in

529

00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:59,600

and we go to the footy or something so you know, it's that balance of doing things together.

530

00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:07,000

Yeah, that's it isn't it? Because it's like, I guess you probably, fair to say like it's

531

01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:12,160

you couldn't give up that part of your life because then the rest of your life would suffer.

532

01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:16,240

You know, you couldn't give up your artistic endeavours because then you wouldn't be the

533

01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:17,240

person that you are.

534

01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:25,280

I'd be miserable. When we first moved here, you know, everything was in storage because

535

01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:29,280

we were waiting like we had a little unit and then we were waiting to move into our

536

01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:34,200

house and everything was in storage and I reckon it was about almost a year later and

537

01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:40,960

I got my sewing machine out and I just had that huge like reminder of, oh, I have missed

538

01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:44,200

this so much, you know?

539

01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:51,600

And I felt like my old self again. Yeah, like, yeah, it's weird that just doing that thing

540

01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:56,880

that's always been there and that creativity just made me feel like me again. I felt like

541

01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:57,880

I'd been missing.

542

01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:03,680

Yeah, yeah, absolutely can relate to that. Yeah. I think that's a pretty common thing

543

01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:09,760

that people I chat to, it's like it's just an integral part of who they are.

544

01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:14,200

Yeah, you can't separate. I don't think you can separate it when you're a creative. I

545

01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:16,720

don't think there is that separation.

546

01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:22,840

Yeah, which makes mothering all the more difficult. You know, it's like you've got half your brains

547

01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:27,560

in mum mode and half your brains in art mode and they cross over and then, you know, one

548

01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:29,560

takes over and the other one takes over.

549

01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:33,920

Yeah, and that takes over your whole house as well when you have no room and you're painting

550

01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:38,400

on the kitchen floor and I can't remember the last time we actually sat around our kitchen

551

01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:43,240

table. Yeah, we ate a meal together because like it's covered, like it's literally covered

552

01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:49,040

in paint brushes and paint and yeah, I've got canvases all over the place and, you know,

553

01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:53,920

they just walk around stuff now. It's not even like, are you going to clean this stuff

554

01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:58,800

up mum? It's just like, oh yeah, we'll just step over the canvas and moving right along.

555

01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:00,800

Yeah, that's it.

556

01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:06,200

But it's not like, you know, when Fraser gets home from school, I usually like stop

557

01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:12,920

for an hour or so just to, you know, wind down with him and yeah, like Lachie's studying

558

01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:18,760

from home. So, you know, when he comes up and has lunch and stuff, you know, just yeah,

559

01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:23,560

being at home and touching it, touching base and you know, checking in on how he's going

560

01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:29,800

and stuff. So yeah, it's, I'm very lucky to work from home. Yeah, I feel very lucky to

561

01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:30,800

have that experience.

562

01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:36,040

Yeah, yeah. No, that is nice, isn't it? It does make it tricky that I've talked to people

563

01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:40,240

who work from home. It's like they're in the middle of painting and they might hear the

564

01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:44,680

dishwasher stop or the beef of the washing machine. They're like, oh, I better just do

565

01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:48,040

that. And then it turns into, oh, I better just do this and better just do this. And

566

01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:53,160

then it just rolls on me like, oh, that's right. I was meant to be doing my painting.

567

01:02:53,160 --> 01:03:00,320

What's the opposite in my house? I start painting, I become obsessed and then it's like, oh,

568

01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:04,960

we're out of clean undies guys. Hang on, I'll have to quickly do a couple of loads of washing

569

01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:14,440

and you know, like, oh, just that tidying, you know, like I get so, I'm just so into

570

01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:18,920

like my artwork. What you're doing. Yeah. And I'm, you know, I'm so lucky my husband

571

01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:23,840

does the cooking and so, you know, I don't, I kind of don't have to stop. So I guess the

572

01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:31,800

tricky thing in that really is that it's hard for me to know when to clock off and actually

573

01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:37,720

just tools down for the day and separate work from, you know, just chilling out at home.

574

01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:42,320

Yeah. Just sitting here, it'll be like, oh, well, I'll just do another coat on that or,

575

01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:47,320

you know, add a little bit here and then, yeah. And it's, oh, it's time to go to bed.

576

01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:54,320

Oh, sorry. I haven't actually talked to my family tonight. Sorry guys. Oh dear. So is

577

01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:58,240

that pretty common that you'll have like so many different ones on the go at once? Is

578

01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:04,120

that sort of how you like to work? Yeah, I think that's just how my brain works. And

579

01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:14,080

also like there's so many layers to Aboriginal art. So, you know, I might have a base coat

580

01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:19,920

on this one happening and then be blocking in things on the next one. And, you know,

581

01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:27,000

then you've got to wait for the things to dry in between. And like, I might have, you

582

01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:32,680

know, works happening for a show and then a commission piece as well. And then I'm like,

583

01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:38,000

like I said, I'm trying out different ochre. So I'm like, I just, yeah. And then I'll have

584

01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,760

a little play, like a little like reward, I suppose, you know, like I've worked really

585

01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:46,760

hard on this one and now I just want to have a play. And I think that's really important

586

01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:53,760

to give myself that time to just like mess around and not, because when it's your full

587

01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:58,960

time job, I don't ever want it to feel like a job. And I'm lucky that it doesn't because

588

01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:05,360

I absolutely like, I'm just so lucky to be doing what I do every day. But then I, yeah,

589

01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:10,800

I don't want it to get stale. So yeah, yeah. It's important to have those times we almost

590

01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:15,240

like that curiosity of, well, what happens, what happens, you know, messing around, like

591

01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:20,760

you said, about all the different things you like to do. It's like, that keeps you fresh.

592

01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:26,520

That keeps you going. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And just like talking to other, talking

593

01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:32,860

to people, you know, when I go and do a weaving workshop or something, like just that connection

594

01:05:32,860 --> 01:05:36,520

that you have with other people and hearing about their life experiences as well. I think

595

01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:44,160

that's like, that's amazing that I get to do that. And I, yeah, I just feel really grateful

596

01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:52,960

that people are willing to share their experiences as well. Yeah. Yeah. It's that, I guess that

597

01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:58,680

connection. Like I've grown up in a massive family and like my mum has six sisters and

598

01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:02,720

a brother, you know, so there was heaps of aunties and uncles, heaps of cousins, and

599

01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:07,600

you had to sort of be loud to be heard. So it's nice when you go and work in a small

600

01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:12,720

group and everyone sort of, you know, gets their little moment to share and... Yeah.

601

01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:17,480

You're not competing with the airtime. I'm very, I can be very loud. I'm very aware

602

01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:22,320

that I can be very loud. So, all right. Just need to tone it down a little bit. Well, that's

603

01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:52,240

funny. Yes. So you mentioned some things you're working on. Do you have anything

604

01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:57,840

specific coming up that you're working towards? Like anything you want to mention that's coming

605

01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:02,960

up in the near future? I have a few projects on the go, but I can't, I'm not allowed to

606

01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:12,480

talk about them. Yeah. And they're like, they're amazing things, amazing opportunities. And

607

01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:20,840

I just pinch myself, you know, I'm this chick from the bush, like just, it blows my mind

608

01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:30,080

often that I, I'm in the situation that I'm in. And so, you know, to be like working with

609

01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:36,280

companies like Maya, you know, like to have my work in their shops, like nationally, like

610

01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:45,240

that's just pinch me stuff. And like that just, yeah, it still just blows my mind. And

611

01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:51,280

working with, you know, like the South Side Flyers, the women's basketball team, you know,

612

01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:57,680

I was so grateful to go and spend a week with them in Tassie last year for the indigenous

613

01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:03,920

round, you know, design their Jersey and had such a strong connection with them. And just

614

01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:11,040

spending that time, it's like, like, I never would have dreamed of this when I was a kid,

615

01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:23,240

but I could be, yeah, living this amazing life and meeting really interesting people.

616

01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:30,280

And I guess connecting with other women who are doing the same sort of thing, and then

617

01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:35,160

just the experience of the flyers, like these are young female professional athletes and

618

01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:42,400

learning that, you know, the disparity in their pay rate, what the men earn and, you

619

01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:48,680

know, I'm not a raving feminist, but, you know, just little things like that, I guess

620

01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:53,720

it's an eye opener and you don't pay much attention to it until you get to see it up

621

01:08:53,720 --> 01:09:00,520

close and personal, like how hard they work and all that sort of stuff. So, yeah, I love,

622

01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:09,080

I love that there's an element of like, being able to support other women in what I do and

623

01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:17,000

being a role model for young girls as well to just to have a go at things and don't let

624

01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:25,460

your own self like hold you back because we do that all the time. And I think that's something

625

01:09:25,460 --> 01:09:32,520

that has frustrated me about myself for a lot of years, like my own insecurities, I

626

01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:38,720

don't think I can do that. So yeah, I think just, but you know, that comes with age, doesn't

627

01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:39,720

it?

628

01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:41,720

Oh, absolutely. Oh, yeah.

629

01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:44,960

Eventually get to that stage where you're like, no, I'm just going to do what I want

630

01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:45,960

to do.

631

01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:50,920

Yeah, I feel like in your 40s, you literally don't give a toss. You're just going to do

632

01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:54,260

what you want. You don't care what people think anymore. You know, you've gone through

633

01:09:54,260 --> 01:10:00,240

those years of worrying what, what people's judgment is going to be like, nah, I'm just

634

01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:01,240

going to do stuff.

635

01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:08,600

Yeah, for sure. Yep, absolutely. That's yeah. I don't know. So I guess in terms of projects

636

01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:16,320

coming up, yeah, I've got lots of schoolwork that I'm really excited about. I've got a

637

01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:24,440

trip to the Northern Territory for early childhood education, which like that's amazing just

638

01:10:24,440 --> 01:10:30,600

to connect with other educators and hear, hear about different things that they're doing.

639

01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:39,200

I've been quietly working away, I guess at some early childhood resources as well. Like

640

01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:44,800

your inner service, things that I would want to use. And I'm like, oh, they don't, it's

641

01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:50,160

not here. So, you know, how can I create something that will fill that space?

642

01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:51,160

That's exciting.

643

01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:55,360

Yeah. The other stuff I can't really talk about.

644

01:10:55,360 --> 01:11:01,280

That's all right. Damn it. We understand. You just have to keep an eye on your, on Instagram

645

01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:02,720

or Facebook. Where are you most active?

646

01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:06,560

Yeah, I'm on all of those things. On the socials.

647

01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:13,440

Yeah, beautiful. I'll put links in the show notes of your, all your socials and things

648

01:11:13,440 --> 01:11:15,120

so people can find you.

649

01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:20,320

But I have got my work in some galleries around the place, which is like, I'm really lucky

650

01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:24,600

to have their support and their sort of promotion as well. And then yeah, I sort of have my

651

01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:29,000

print work and all that sort of stuff through my website. But I guess the big thing at the

652

01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:37,440

moment is yeah, launching my fabric. So I was, that's a childhood dream and that sort

653

01:11:37,440 --> 01:11:38,440

of happening and

654

01:11:38,440 --> 01:11:40,440

Yeah, that's fantastic.

655

01:11:40,440 --> 01:11:50,920

Wow, there's a lot to learn. And being, you know, very environmentally conscious and,

656

01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:54,920

you know, wanting to know the supply chain and all of that sort of stuff. So that's been

657

01:11:54,920 --> 01:12:03,080

a very steep learning curve. Just, yeah, huge loads of information that you have to try

658

01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:08,640

and absorb and then work out which direction you want to go in. But gee, it's like, it's

659

01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:13,480

a, it's a whole feeling when you wear something that you have designed yourself like that's

660

01:12:13,480 --> 01:12:14,480

just

661

01:12:14,480 --> 01:12:17,000

Yeah, that'd be, that'd just about top it off, wouldn't it? That'd just be the best.

662

01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:21,680

And I think, you know, having that, like watching my nan sew with all those beautiful fabrics

663

01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:25,600

all those years ago is just kind of stuck with me that like that's something I always

664

01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:30,800

wanted to do. And now I've realised that it's like, wow, that's actually happening.

665

01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:36,560

Oh, congratulations. That is exciting. So that people can see that through your website

666

01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:37,560

as well. That's all

667

01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:38,560

Yeah, yeah.

668

01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:43,360

And they're beautiful. That's awesome. No, thank you. It's been lovely to chat with you.

669

01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:44,360

Thanks for coming on.

670

01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:50,400

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Yeah, I love your work.

671

01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:55,480

Thanks for your company today. If you've enjoyed this episode, I'd love you to consider leaving

672

01:12:55,480 --> 01:13:01,000

us a review, following or subscribing to the podcast, or even sharing it with a friend

673

01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:07,120

you think might be interested. If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on the podcast,

674

01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:11,680

please get in touch with us by the link in the show notes. I'll catch you again next

675

01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:40,240

week for another chat with an artistic mom.

676

01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:33,840

I don't know what's on the weekend, even though wanting a rebrand, kicking it up on the rampage.

677

01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:54,660

And the

678

01:14:54,660 --> 01:14:58,660

Collect all this gold energy

679

01:14:59,660 --> 01:15:05,660

Boil my energy, as I press the gold energy

680

01:15:05,660 --> 01:15:09,660

Collect all this gold energy

681

01:15:09,660 --> 01:15:13,660

Collect all this gold energy

682

01:15:13,660 --> 01:15:28,660

Collect all this gold energy

683

01:15:28,660 --> 01:15:43,660

Collect all this gold energy

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