Being a Mum podcast where I, Alison Newman, a singer, songwriter and Aussie mum of two,

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enjoys honest and inspiring conversations with artists and creators about the joys and

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issues they've encountered while trying to be a mum and continue to create.

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You'll hear themes like the mental juggle, changes in identity, how their work's been

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influenced by motherhood, mum guilt, cultural norms and we also stray into territory such

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as the patriarchy, feminism and capitalism.

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You can find links to my guests and topics we discuss in the show notes along with a

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link to the music played, how to get in touch and a link to join our supportive and lively

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community on Instagram.

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I'll always put a trigger warning if we discuss sensitive topics on the podcast but if at

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any time you're concerned about your mental health I urge you to talk to those around

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you, reach out to health professionals or seek out resources online.

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I've compiled a list of international resources which can be accessed on the podcast landing

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page alisonnewman.net slash podcast.

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The art of being a mum would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land and water

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which this podcast is recorded on as being the Bowendig people in the Beren region.

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I'm working on land that was never ceded.

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Hello and welcome to another episode of the podcast.

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This week we're up to 91, creeping ever closer to that magical 100.

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This week however my guest is Elora Villano, a photographer based in Lincolnshire in the

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UK and a mum of two.

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Elora's originally from Canada and she spent a few years in Italy where she met her husband

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before moving to the UK.

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Growing up Elora loved being creative but didn't have a natural affinity for drawing

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or painting.

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She was looking for ways to be creative and express herself and in high school she discovered

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photography.

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She finally found what she'd been looking for.

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Elora's been photographing since back in the days of film, the first time around and has

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enjoyed it as a passionate hobby ever since.

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She enjoys experimenting in her work using different lenses, collages or light leak overlays.

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Six years ago Elora decided to turn photography into a business and she got so sucked into

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making it a success in that process that she'd forgotten about her love for her personal

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projects.

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Having made active changes she's proud to say she's managed to accomplish a number of

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personal projects and continues to do so, growing and challenging herself with this

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medium.

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Elora is a family photographer and enjoys a documentary style.

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Her biggest passions are capturing emotion and movement in her subjects.

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She's won a number of awards and been published in magazines both in print and online.

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Elora's current project Kintsuki Mama aligns the Japanese art of repairing with gold,

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with stretch marks.

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Through this project Elora is exploring the beauty of the so called scarred female body,

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the body where the skin stretches, breaks and re-heals itself all while bringing a new

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life into this world.

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It's an incredible feat of mother nature and yet somehow we do not tend to look upon those

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stretch marks with love but with distaste, hate even.

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What if instead of hiding those imperfections we celebrated them, repaired them with gold,

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the most precious element of them all?

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What if we took the time to see how glorious they truly are?

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Would we see ourselves differently?

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Would we revel in the power of womanhood?

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Elora it's lovely to meet you.

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Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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It's good to meet you too.

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Yeah it's such a pleasure.

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So we're just chatting before I hit record.

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You're over in the UK and it is the morning there.

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Whereabouts in the UK are you?

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Lincolnshire which is East, Central East Coast type area of the country.

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Yeah right.

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So in relation to London which is about north, mostly where most people know.

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So it's north of London.

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Have you always lived there with your accent?

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No, no my accent is not British.

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It's Canadian.

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Yeah, yes.

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I was born and raised in Canada and then I spent a few years in Italy when I met my husband

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and then we ended up moving here for his work and so far this is where we're staying.

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Yeah right.

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So couldn't be more special than this.

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I'm a photographer, primarily.

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I like to dabble in other things, but just as a hobby, really.

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So I mostly do photography and I also run it as a business with family and personal

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branding here in Lincoln.

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And I also do it as personal work and therapy and just as the storyteller of the family

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as well as doing projects that are close to my heart.

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And I've also recently launched a podcast.

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Oh, exciting!

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Yeah, so it's all on.

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I'm all over the place as usual, doing 400 different things.

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All in good fun.

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Just to keep me busy.

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Yeah, that's awesome.

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Tell us about your style of photography that you like to take.

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I love doing more documentary type photography, so taking pictures as they are.

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My biggest passion is capturing emotion in my images and movement and love and connection

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and joy and just silliness in general.

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I just live for that.

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When I see one of those pictures, it's just like, that's the one for me.

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I also enjoy experimenting a bit with photography on the side, a personal side, using like creative

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lenses or sticking stuff in front of my lenses.

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Occasionally doing photomontage type stuff.

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Not very good, but it's fun to experiment.

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I like to try new things because then I see I can incorporate that into my work if it

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feels like it's in line with me.

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Otherwise I don't.

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Otherwise I just let it go because it's not my thing.

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I learned that the hard way by trying to be what I wasn't.

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I just, with age and maturity, as you do, I just said, you know what, that's not me.

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I've tried, it wasn't for me, I move on.

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Good on you.

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I actually had a bit of a squeeze on your webpage.

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I love that style.

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It's like you're not setting people in positions and poses and all that sort of stage sort

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of style of photography, which I, when I got married, I got married 20 years ago and I

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wanted the style of photography like that, like what you do, like this documentary style

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where you're just capturing things as they happen.

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The tent I live in, we've only got like 30,000 people.

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At that time there was maybe two professional photographers and this was back on the film

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days.

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No one did the style like that.

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It was all stand here and stand here and blah, blah, blah.

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And it's like, I had my time again.

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I probably would have pushed a bit harder.

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But you know, it's become more popular as a style over the last 20 years or so.

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I think it's evolved because there was a very distinct thing between reportage.

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Also like reporters and news things and Magnum photo kind of stuff and what family photography

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was supposed to be.

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So studio imposed and curated and made to look because it was a special occasion.

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But as things have changed, they've kind of all smushed together a lot and it's become

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very nice to see that there's a whole array of different styles for people to choose from

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and they can go with what they're drawn to.

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Yeah, that's so true, isn't it?

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And I love that.

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I think because like when digital came along, it just became so much more accessible to

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so many people.

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And I know, yeah, in where I live, like just about everybody can take photos, like, you

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know, whether they're good or not, it's another story.

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But there are a lot of photographers around now compared to what they used to be.

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Yeah, you're not sure of pretty much everyone's got a good camera these days.

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How did you first get into photography?

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Okay.

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So it's a story of how one person can really influence your life and change it.

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In this case, a teacher.

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I always liked being creative, but I suck at drawing like stick men, barely understandable.

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I mean, my kids draw better than I do.

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Their father, thankfully for them, but you know, I can't say that I'm not a good artist.

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I can't draw.

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I love being creative.

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I love doing crafty things.

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I really wanted to be able to express myself, but I could never find a medium that I liked.

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I kept taking art classes.

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I kept really doing badly at art classes and getting critiqued and getting pushed down,

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but I just kept going until about high school in grade 11, no, grade 12.

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So last year of high school, my art teacher introduced me to photography and she, we had

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a school camera and she gave it to me.

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She showed me how to put the film in, in the black bag, the way you used to do it in the

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olden days.

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And you know, she taught the whole module basically on how to use photography and I

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found it and I was like, it just opened my eyes as to how I could be creative and I could

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do that with people and things and how I see the world and how light is.

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And so I basically never stopped after that.

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I kept going as a hobby.

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You know, I'd take a little camera with me everywhere and photograph my trips, my travels,

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my friends, my family, the cats, everything.

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You know, I had stacks of pictures that I would go to the little one hour photo guy

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and print them out and have it done.

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And then there was a bit of a pause for a while while I was studying at university.

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I just didn't have the time to follow on a lot of hobbies.

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And in that meantime, everything kind of went digital.

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So it was like I had to learn it all again in a way.

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So I picked up a digital camera and I slowly started learning and got into that.

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And I just kept doing it, you know, just practicing and playing around as a hobby, never really

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thinking it could become a business or anything like that until I had my kids.

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And then with my first child, I realized that I wanted to have the flexibility of deciding

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my own times.

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And I was like, I wanted to still do something creative.

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I still wanted to do something I could work around my family.

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And it was like, well, this is pretty clear.

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So I decided to start up my business and that's it really.

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It's been going since then.

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Yeah, right.

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So how long is that?

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How old is that child?

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The oldest one is nine and the youngest is six, going on seven as she likes to point

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out every day.

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Six and a half mommy and only like three months until my birthday.

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You know, that kind of counting it down.

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Yeah, they're so detailed oriented.

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So, so yeah, sorry, I was saying.

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So yeah, it's been first year or so was kind of start and stop because I was learning all

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the things about business.

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And that's where I kind of fell into doing what other people were doing.

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So I thought has to be studio stuff.

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So I had to learn about lighting and backdrops and find a space and posing and and it was

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so hard for me to learn it and just do it.

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And anytime I had a session, the photos I found that I tended to be drawn to the most

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for the outtakes.

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Yeah.

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And and I was like, and I always included them.

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And then, you know, sometimes people wanted that posed look and sometimes they preferred

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the outtakes and and stuff like that.

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And then as I got into it and then I was just I kept on taking like courses and joining

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groups and communities and all that kind of stuff.

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And then I found lifestyle photography and I was like, oh, this is like an in between

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kind of thing.

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And it was being very popular in the States and Canada.

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It was not yet all the rage here.

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It was just starting kind of here in the UK.

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So it took a long time for me to kind of promote and get people to do it.

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But I did a few model calls, got a few model families in, started to change over the website

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and who I was focusing on.

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And in the meantime, we moved.

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So I had a completely new clean slate basically to work on with new clients.

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And I just promoted myself as that and then from lifestyle, I've gone more and more towards

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the documentary approach.

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And that's that seems to be where I have settled right now as it stands from a business standpoint.

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Personally, I've always been documentary.

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So I've always been doing, you know, just taking pictures of things as they are, nature

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landscapes or people in the street or that kind of thing.

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The kids as they were growing and that started me off on a series of personal projects as

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well.

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And yeah, that's pretty much it summed up.

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Yeah, no, that's awesome.

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I love that.

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Like you mentioned it earlier and then, you know, I'm going into some detail with it now.

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But I think a lot of people can relate to that, that when you start something new, there's

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this, you have this idea of what it's supposed to be like and you can find yourself sort

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of falling into that trap of not listening, maybe not listening to your heart because

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you think I've got to do it like that because that seems to be right.

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So then it's like, and you knew like, you didn't want to do it like that, but it was

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like, yeah, I could feel that it just wasn't my thing.

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Yeah.

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And I think a lot of people can relate to that.

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And it takes a lot of courage and a lot of sort of soul searching to sort of look at

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why do I want to do this?

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Why the reasons I want to do it that way or this way?

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Yeah.

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So I love that.

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That's really good.

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Oh, do you?

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I'm just thinking about myself when I say that.

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Oh, there you go.

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It's just, I know it's just, you know, you just, I don't know.

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You second guess yourself so much, I think.

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And so you don't trust yourself enough at different times.

239

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Yeah.

240

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So no, anyway.

241

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That's all right.

242

00:17:19,460 --> 00:17:24,140

I think it comes a bit more with age that you kind of just say, screw it, you know,

243

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at a certain point, I'm just going to do what I want to do.

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And if people like it, that's great.

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If they don't tell, you know, kind of thing.

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I think it's come to me as I've gotten older and felt more secure in my skills and my abilities,

247

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I think, and I have learned to say no to things.

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And at first I wouldn't, I refused to because I think I need the money.

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I need to do this.

250

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I need to practice.

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And then I found myself doing a lot of stuff I didn't want to do.

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And I was like, nah, life's too short.

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And so I've said, no, I have a wonderful network of other local photographers who do all sorts

254

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of different styles and events and types of photography and focusing on things.

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And I'm very happy to refer people over to them.

256

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And you know, sometimes we even share clients because they like both kinds of styles and

257

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stuff like that.

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So sometimes they go to one for one thing and me for another.

259

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And it's lovely.

260

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You know, it's nice to be able to do that.

261

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I love that.

262

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Something else I think we can get caught up is like that competitiveness.

263

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But when you genuinely sort of settled in yourself, which you obviously are, you can

264

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be open to that and you don't feel threatened by other people.

265

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You know, you're doing what you love.

266

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You're allowing your clients to come to you if they're drawn to that style.

267

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I just think that's awesome.

268

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Good on you.

269

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I love it.

270

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I love that.

271

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And I think, yeah, I agree with that.

272

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It's something that it takes time and experience.

273

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And I feel like I've said this to other people in the podcast, when you get into your forties,

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it's literally you do not care anymore.

275

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It's like everyone else can go jump and you're going to do what you want.

276

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Absolutely.

277

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The older I get, the more I'm like, yeah, do what you want.

278

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You do you.

279

00:19:19,620 --> 00:19:20,620

Yeah.

280

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I'm happy with it.

281

00:19:21,620 --> 00:19:22,620

Yeah.

282

00:19:22,620 --> 00:19:23,620

Yeah.

283

00:19:23,620 --> 00:19:51,180

Tell me about the Daily Collective.

284

00:19:51,180 --> 00:19:54,020

Yeah, Daily Collective.

285

00:19:54,020 --> 00:20:01,940

Basically, during lockdown, obviously, I was considered a non-essential service and I couldn't

286

00:20:01,940 --> 00:20:02,940

work.

287

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So I had to find something, you know, do something.

288

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And with my time and between the homeschooling and all the stuff that we all went through

289

00:20:12,540 --> 00:20:22,380

everywhere, I found a lot of wonderful photography communities that really came together.

290

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Some didn't and some did.

291

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And I let go of the ones that didn't and I stick with the ones that did.

292

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And I have found and made some amazing and inspirational friends through these communities.

293

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And so I wanted to create a similar type of community as well, but with a focus on just

294

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personal projects, because there are so many communities for businesses, business and marketing

295

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and a mix of all of it.

296

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But I really wanted to focus on that artistic and creative side to photography.

297

00:21:01,300 --> 00:21:02,740

So I made one rule.

298

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I said, I will share only personal work, so nothing you've done for a client, just for

299

00:21:08,580 --> 00:21:09,580

you.

300

00:21:09,580 --> 00:21:14,260

If it's for you or for a gallery exhibition or, you know, a theme that you're working

301

00:21:14,260 --> 00:21:19,700

towards or something, but it's a personal project that you're doing for you, then that's

302

00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:22,340

what I want to focus on and help with.

303

00:21:22,340 --> 00:21:24,840

So it started out just like as a feature hub.

304

00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:31,540

So I would share a picture every day from a different person who used the tag.

305

00:21:31,540 --> 00:21:36,420

And because that was the 365, so one picture a day for a year.

306

00:21:36,420 --> 00:21:41,380

But then as it kept going, I kept seeing such beautiful stuff.

307

00:21:41,380 --> 00:21:45,020

And so I kind of expanded it into like a membership.

308

00:21:45,020 --> 00:21:48,100

And I was like, you know what?

309

00:21:48,100 --> 00:21:49,100

Screw it.

310

00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:50,100

Let's just do a podcast and talk about it.

311

00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:51,100

So I did it for like 24 hours.

312

00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:52,100

I decided, let's just do that.

313

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And that's it.

314

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I did all my research.

315

00:21:54,100 --> 00:21:55,100

I found all this stuff.

316

00:21:55,100 --> 00:21:56,100

I'm like, that seems easy enough to start a podcast.

317

00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:57,100

And there you go.

318

00:21:57,100 --> 00:21:58,100

And I started just writing out my own story.

319

00:21:58,100 --> 00:21:59,100

And I was like, I'm going to do this.

320

00:21:59,100 --> 00:22:00,100

I'm going to do this.

321

00:22:00,100 --> 00:22:01,100

I'm going to do this.

322

00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:04,620

And I started writing out my little scripts or whatever.

323

00:22:04,620 --> 00:22:06,980

And I was like, so people, this is what I'm doing.

324

00:22:06,980 --> 00:22:07,980

And that was it.

325

00:22:07,980 --> 00:22:08,980

That is so great.

326

00:22:08,980 --> 00:22:16,260

So the Baby Collective has kind of expanded a little bit over the last year or so.

327

00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:22,900

I think I launched it around maybe April last year, April, May.

328

00:22:22,900 --> 00:22:29,260

So it's coming on a year of life, so to speak.

329

00:22:29,260 --> 00:22:33,460

So I've loved seeing the journey as it's expanding.

330

00:22:33,460 --> 00:22:34,460

It's a small community.

331

00:22:34,460 --> 00:22:38,740

It's a tiny community, but I don't mind.

332

00:22:38,740 --> 00:22:41,740

It's great if it expands, the more the merrier.

333

00:22:41,740 --> 00:22:45,540

But I like that it's small also because you get to really know the people that are in

334

00:22:45,540 --> 00:22:50,900

it and get to know their work and see how they express themselves and share that, which

335

00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:53,900

is really lovely.

336

00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:56,340

On the one hand, I'm tempted to just keep it small.

337

00:22:56,340 --> 00:22:59,500

On the other hand, I want it to grow, obviously.

338

00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:02,260

Kind of thing like that.

339

00:23:02,260 --> 00:23:06,820

But I'm hoping to manage to find a balance into letting it grow, but let it feel like

340

00:23:06,820 --> 00:23:15,620

it's close and a safe space for everyone to share their frustrations and their creative

341

00:23:15,620 --> 00:23:23,140

process or ask for advice or feedback or whatever, or just need somewhere to just have a cry

342

00:23:23,140 --> 00:23:28,220

because all creatives, we tend to just have our moments, don't we?

343

00:23:28,220 --> 00:23:33,780

And you just need to get it off your chest sometimes, just write it out and then it just

344

00:23:33,780 --> 00:23:34,780

feels so much better.

345

00:23:34,780 --> 00:23:39,740

And to have someone say, I understand you and I hear that.

346

00:23:39,740 --> 00:23:41,300

It's so powerful for you.

347

00:23:41,300 --> 00:23:43,900

And it's like a balm for the soul.

348

00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:45,020

You're like, now I can go on.

349

00:23:45,020 --> 00:23:49,060

I don't have to obsess about that because someone understands.

350

00:23:49,060 --> 00:23:53,340

And that's what I'd like to keep becoming and growing into.

351

00:23:53,340 --> 00:23:54,340

Yeah.

352

00:23:54,340 --> 00:23:55,340

Oh, great.

353

00:23:55,340 --> 00:23:56,340

Good for you.

354

00:23:56,340 --> 00:23:57,340

I really love that.

355

00:23:57,340 --> 00:24:01,940

And I love that you decided to do your podcast really quickly because that's literally what

356

00:24:01,940 --> 00:24:02,940

I did.

357

00:24:02,940 --> 00:24:05,220

And it's awesome.

358

00:24:05,220 --> 00:24:10,980

I had this conversation with someone on a podcast earlier in the year, or it might have

359

00:24:10,980 --> 00:24:11,980

been last year.

360

00:24:11,980 --> 00:24:12,980

I can't remember now.

361

00:24:12,980 --> 00:24:17,980

But we're talking about how obviously everyone's different and their creative process can be

362

00:24:17,980 --> 00:24:19,660

quite different.

363

00:24:19,660 --> 00:24:26,140

And how some people like you and I, we just get an idea and just go bang and just do it.

364

00:24:26,140 --> 00:24:31,100

And then some people will have to like research and research and prepare and plan.

365

00:24:31,100 --> 00:24:35,900

And it takes a certain amount of months before they're happy to let it go out.

366

00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:42,180

And it's like, I just find it really fascinating just how everyone's way of processing is so

367

00:24:42,180 --> 00:24:43,180

different.

368

00:24:43,180 --> 00:24:44,180

Like, I don't know.

369

00:24:44,180 --> 00:24:45,180

I just, I don't know.

370

00:24:45,180 --> 00:24:47,180

I just find that really, really cool.

371

00:24:47,180 --> 00:24:56,100

And it's probably no reflection on how successful something is or whatever.

372

00:24:56,100 --> 00:25:00,820

It's probably not measurable whether you do it this way or that way, what the end outcome

373

00:25:00,820 --> 00:25:01,820

is.

374

00:25:01,820 --> 00:25:02,820

So it's, I don't know.

375

00:25:02,820 --> 00:25:03,820

Sorry, I'm rambling now.

376

00:25:03,820 --> 00:25:04,820

I'm just kidding.

377

00:25:04,820 --> 00:25:05,820

Don't worry.

378

00:25:05,820 --> 00:25:06,820

I like a good ramble.

379

00:25:06,820 --> 00:25:07,820

Don't worry.

380

00:25:07,820 --> 00:25:08,820

I do it myself a lot.

381

00:25:08,820 --> 00:25:09,820

Oh, do you?

382

00:25:09,820 --> 00:25:10,820

Yeah.

383

00:25:10,820 --> 00:25:11,820

No, there you go.

384

00:25:11,820 --> 00:25:12,820

Well, that's cool.

385

00:25:12,820 --> 00:25:19,020

So I'm going to put the link for your, your predominantly on Instagram with that.

386

00:25:19,020 --> 00:25:20,020

Yeah.

387

00:25:20,020 --> 00:25:21,020

With that one.

388

00:25:21,020 --> 00:25:22,020

Yeah, cool.

389

00:25:22,020 --> 00:25:25,100

So I'll put a, I'll put a hyperlink in the show notes for people if they're interested

390

00:25:25,100 --> 00:25:27,980

in checking that out, because that is really cool.

391

00:25:27,980 --> 00:25:30,820

Inspire and learn a community for personal photography projects.

392

00:25:30,820 --> 00:25:31,820

I love it.

393

00:25:31,820 --> 00:25:33,660

Good on you.

394

00:25:33,660 --> 00:25:37,220

And I also noticed that you're a moderator for a couple of other photography.

395

00:25:37,220 --> 00:25:38,220

Yeah.

396

00:25:38,220 --> 00:25:39,220

Yeah.

397

00:25:39,220 --> 00:25:46,780

Yeah, I find it hard to know what to say on Instagram because it's like, it's not like

398

00:25:46,780 --> 00:25:47,780

a pay.

399

00:25:47,780 --> 00:25:48,780

You know what I mean?

400

00:25:48,780 --> 00:25:49,780

Yeah.

401

00:25:49,780 --> 00:25:50,780

Yeah.

402

00:25:50,780 --> 00:25:53,620

So that were they ones that you discovered through the pandemic as well?

403

00:25:53,620 --> 00:25:54,620

Yes.

404

00:25:54,620 --> 00:25:56,740

Yes, they were.

405

00:25:56,740 --> 00:26:05,620

So the two that I moderate for is flock and flock live and for the love of the photograph.

406

00:26:05,620 --> 00:26:10,540

So flock live is the one that came out just during the pandemic.

407

00:26:10,540 --> 00:26:17,540

It was, it started out as a, it was supposed to be like a show, a photography show, you

408

00:26:17,540 --> 00:26:26,220

know, kind of expo thing, but pandemic put that down and, but it was focused on the kind

409

00:26:26,220 --> 00:26:27,860

of photography that I love.

410

00:26:27,860 --> 00:26:28,860

Yeah.

411

00:26:28,860 --> 00:26:34,780

A lot of the shows that they have are very much like post newborns and their props and

412

00:26:34,780 --> 00:26:37,140

backdrops and business.

413

00:26:37,140 --> 00:26:41,780

And there isn't a lot of space for personal stuff.

414

00:26:41,780 --> 00:26:45,620

And this one seemed like it was going to be different already from the outset.

415

00:26:45,620 --> 00:26:47,420

So I was 100%.

416

00:26:47,420 --> 00:26:49,740

I was like their number one fan everywhere.

417

00:26:49,740 --> 00:26:53,380

I was totally fan girling over the whole thing.

418

00:26:53,380 --> 00:26:59,420

And then as the community grew and stuff overlocked down and I just wanted to become a part of

419

00:26:59,420 --> 00:27:00,420

it.

420

00:27:00,420 --> 00:27:05,620

And they asked for moderators for their Instagram and stuff like that.

421

00:27:05,620 --> 00:27:12,620

I jumped on board and I've been doing so since it has quieted down a lot now from the way

422

00:27:12,620 --> 00:27:14,620

it was, most of the groups have.

423

00:27:14,620 --> 00:27:16,620

Yeah, just the nature.

424

00:27:16,620 --> 00:27:19,980

Back to normal life, haven't we?

425

00:27:19,980 --> 00:27:25,420

But it's still for me, it was a very important part of my sanity during lockdown and a creative

426

00:27:25,420 --> 00:27:27,820

outlet and the community for me.

427

00:27:27,820 --> 00:27:31,380

And so I really wanted to give back in that way.

428

00:27:31,380 --> 00:27:38,660

And For the Love of the Photograph is actually based on a book that another photographer

429

00:27:38,660 --> 00:27:44,980

who's based in New Zealand, she wrote Chloe Lodge and she just wrote this book and it

430

00:27:44,980 --> 00:27:50,420

was all about personal photography and capturing your everyday and seeing the light and just

431

00:27:50,420 --> 00:27:53,340

letting it speak to you and having a slow process.

432

00:27:53,340 --> 00:27:56,060

And she started a group and of course the Instagram page.

433

00:27:56,060 --> 00:27:59,580

Of course I was also fangirling over that.

434

00:27:59,580 --> 00:28:04,620

And when she was looking for moderators and stuff, she asked, I was like, yes, absolutely.

435

00:28:04,620 --> 00:28:07,860

So I joined in on that as well.

436

00:28:07,860 --> 00:28:11,700

I am part of other groups as well, but I can't do everything.

437

00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:14,700

So I had to stop myself.

438

00:28:14,700 --> 00:28:19,740

Oh yeah, I know.

439

00:28:19,740 --> 00:28:24,740

It's hard to, is there, oh, this is what we're talking about this morning when I was chatting

440

00:28:24,740 --> 00:28:29,300

to someone else was this, we've got lists of things we want to do and there's only so

441

00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:34,500

much time that we've got, you know, and it's hard to pick the things to focus on.

442

00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:36,740

It's hard to weed it out.

443

00:28:36,740 --> 00:28:38,580

My list is extensively long.

444

00:28:38,580 --> 00:28:40,540

I actually, I'm going to record a podcast.

445

00:28:40,540 --> 00:28:45,980

I have written, I need to record a podcast about like the craziness of the creative mind

446

00:28:45,980 --> 00:28:54,100

and all the way that your thoughts from one thing can just become this huge thing.

447

00:28:54,100 --> 00:28:57,540

So yeah, that's funny that you mentioned that as well.

448

00:28:57,540 --> 00:29:00,980

It's just like, oh my gosh, it's like the list is so long.

449

00:29:00,980 --> 00:29:07,940

It's a book of its own of things that you want to do and learn and try and experiment

450

00:29:07,940 --> 00:29:10,100

and try and do it.

451

00:29:10,100 --> 00:29:12,500

It's just like, yeah, it really is.

452

00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:13,500

Isn't it?

453

00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:19,420

I find that sometimes I get a lot of my ideas in the shower or when I'm swimming, like there's

454

00:29:19,420 --> 00:29:25,660

something about being in water or movement that gets, I don't know, my ideas come really

455

00:29:25,660 --> 00:29:30,260

easily and often I'll like be in the shower and think, oh, that's a good idea for a song

456

00:29:30,260 --> 00:29:33,820

or I'll get a tune in my head and I'll have to jump out and quickly like record on my

457

00:29:33,820 --> 00:29:39,020

phone or quickly make notes and like, oh, I'm so, you know, inspired and invigorated.

458

00:29:39,020 --> 00:29:43,060

And then I go, oh, now I've got to go make the lunches for school, you know, just back

459

00:29:43,060 --> 00:29:44,060

to reality.

460

00:29:44,060 --> 00:29:48,740

That's the thing I find hardest when you get in a tangent or you're on a roll and then

461

00:29:48,740 --> 00:29:51,660

it's like you've brought back to earth so quickly.

462

00:29:51,660 --> 00:29:52,660

Yeah.

463

00:29:52,660 --> 00:29:55,660

By the scream of, Mum, I'm hungry.

464

00:29:55,660 --> 00:29:56,660

Yeah.

465

00:29:56,660 --> 00:29:57,660

That's mine usually.

466

00:29:57,660 --> 00:30:25,580

Oh, dear.

467

00:30:25,580 --> 00:30:28,020

So speaking of, Mum, I'm hungry.

468

00:30:28,020 --> 00:30:29,020

So you've got two children.

469

00:30:29,020 --> 00:30:32,020

That's a great segue, wasn't it?

470

00:30:32,020 --> 00:30:33,020

Sorry.

471

00:30:33,020 --> 00:30:35,460

So have you got two girls or a boy to girl?

472

00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:36,460

Two girls.

473

00:30:36,460 --> 00:30:37,460

Two girls.

474

00:30:37,460 --> 00:30:38,460

Well, that's fun.

475

00:30:38,460 --> 00:30:39,460

I haven't got any girls.

476

00:30:39,460 --> 00:30:40,460

I got two boys.

477

00:30:40,460 --> 00:30:41,460

There you go.

478

00:30:41,460 --> 00:30:44,460

It's either all or nothing.

479

00:30:44,460 --> 00:30:45,860

Oh, dear.

480

00:30:45,860 --> 00:30:56,260

So do you girls see that you do things for yourself that don't involve the mothering

481

00:30:56,260 --> 00:30:57,260

role?

482

00:30:57,260 --> 00:31:02,020

I guess your nine-year-old would probably be aware that you're, you know, you're a

483

00:31:02,020 --> 00:31:04,500

photographer and you do all these other really cool things.

484

00:31:04,500 --> 00:31:10,140

Is it important to you that they see that, that you still have an identity that's not

485

00:31:10,140 --> 00:31:11,140

related to them?

486

00:31:11,140 --> 00:31:12,140

Absolutely.

487

00:31:12,140 --> 00:31:13,140

In a nice way.

488

00:31:13,140 --> 00:31:14,140

Yeah.

489

00:31:14,140 --> 00:31:15,140

No, no, absolutely.

490

00:31:15,140 --> 00:31:18,260

I know exactly what you mean.

491

00:31:18,260 --> 00:31:23,140

And it is important for me to do that and have my space.

492

00:31:23,140 --> 00:31:25,540

I've always been a person that has needed her space.

493

00:31:25,540 --> 00:31:27,300

I love being with people.

494

00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:34,660

I call myself an extroverted introvert because I do enjoy being with people.

495

00:31:34,660 --> 00:31:36,820

I love being part of communities.

496

00:31:36,820 --> 00:31:42,340

I love going out and being creative and learning things and exploring things and travelling

497

00:31:42,340 --> 00:31:45,620

and seeing things and, you know, living life.

498

00:31:45,620 --> 00:31:47,180

But I also need time to recharge.

499

00:31:47,180 --> 00:31:51,660

And I always have needed times for me where it's just me alone.

500

00:31:51,660 --> 00:31:56,300

And even as a kid, I needed my space as a teenager, same thing.

501

00:31:56,300 --> 00:32:00,460

I always needed to like have a space where I could lock myself in and just do something

502

00:32:00,460 --> 00:32:05,860

for me, which usually ended up being something creative.

503

00:32:05,860 --> 00:32:13,020

But I kind of lost that for a while, especially when the girls were really little.

504

00:32:13,020 --> 00:32:18,540

It was just either I was mom and between naps, I was trying to get this business off the

505

00:32:18,540 --> 00:32:22,380

ground and then it was kids and then it was the business and then it was the kids and

506

00:32:22,380 --> 00:32:23,380

then it was the business.

507

00:32:23,380 --> 00:32:24,380

And that's all it was.

508

00:32:24,380 --> 00:32:27,180

It was either work or family.

509

00:32:27,180 --> 00:32:32,140

And for a while there and I was like at a certain point, I was like, I need something.

510

00:32:32,140 --> 00:32:34,300

I need to do creative outlet.

511

00:32:34,300 --> 00:32:36,340

I need to do something for me.

512

00:32:36,340 --> 00:32:41,500

And although I was doing like little photo project kind of mini things for me, like taking,

513

00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:45,820

you know, I have a 365 project, which is a photo a day basically.

514

00:32:45,820 --> 00:32:48,820

And then I put it in a little album at the end of the year.

515

00:32:48,820 --> 00:32:51,340

And it's just like the year in review kind of thing.

516

00:32:51,340 --> 00:32:58,940

So I was still I was kind of doing that, but I wasn't really doing anything else for me.

517

00:32:58,940 --> 00:33:06,140

So as soon as my oldest one started school, because here they start at four years old

518

00:33:06,140 --> 00:33:07,140

reception.

519

00:33:07,140 --> 00:33:12,020

It's like kindergarten kind of thing at four years old.

520

00:33:12,020 --> 00:33:15,140

And then the other one was starting preschool.

521

00:33:15,140 --> 00:33:19,140

So she was at nursery three days a week doing like preschool things.

522

00:33:19,140 --> 00:33:22,220

I found myself with more time.

523

00:33:22,220 --> 00:33:28,660

And first I threw it all into getting the business really going and self-sustaining.

524

00:33:28,660 --> 00:33:31,900

And I didn't time any of that for me.

525

00:33:31,900 --> 00:33:35,660

And I just work, work, work, work, work when they were there kids.

526

00:33:35,660 --> 00:33:36,940

But then I said, you know what?

527

00:33:36,940 --> 00:33:37,940

Damn it.

528

00:33:37,940 --> 00:33:39,660

I need 10 minutes for myself.

529

00:33:39,660 --> 00:33:42,420

So I started to go on a walk outside.

530

00:33:42,420 --> 00:33:44,940

I took my camera and I go we're in the countryside.

531

00:33:44,940 --> 00:33:50,380

We're in a small village, got tons of fields out there right now.

532

00:33:50,380 --> 00:33:53,700

And so I was like, I'm just going for a walk.

533

00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:55,700

And I felt so good.

534

00:33:55,700 --> 00:34:00,580

I started with 10 minutes, 10 minutes.

535

00:34:00,580 --> 00:34:06,460

And you know, I would do it when the kids were away, when they weren't around.

536

00:34:06,460 --> 00:34:14,580

But as things started to progress, I started to pick up and learn new creative things,

537

00:34:14,580 --> 00:34:15,580

new hobbies.

538

00:34:15,580 --> 00:34:16,580

Like I learned macrame.

539

00:34:16,580 --> 00:34:17,580

Yeah, yeah.

540

00:34:17,580 --> 00:34:21,060

Yeah, I learned how to macrame.

541

00:34:21,060 --> 00:34:25,540

And so I would sit down on the weekends and say to the kids, mommy's doing some crafty

542

00:34:25,540 --> 00:34:26,540

stuff.

543

00:34:26,540 --> 00:34:30,980

And I would macrame some wall hanging or something like that on the weekends.

544

00:34:30,980 --> 00:34:33,180

And they would watch me sometimes.

545

00:34:33,180 --> 00:34:35,300

And I was like, this is mommy time.

546

00:34:35,300 --> 00:34:42,220

And so I started to put that thing down there that this was mommy time.

547

00:34:42,220 --> 00:34:49,020

And it's slowly evolved into having an actual day in my schedule where it's my personal

548

00:34:49,020 --> 00:34:50,020

day.

549

00:34:50,020 --> 00:34:51,020

I love it.

550

00:34:51,020 --> 00:34:52,020

Yeah.

551

00:34:52,020 --> 00:34:54,900

So every Thursday is where I do stuff for me.

552

00:34:54,900 --> 00:34:57,260

So I go to my yoga lesson.

553

00:34:57,260 --> 00:35:05,840

I work on either a personal photography project or I work on learning a new skill on my long

554

00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,580

list of creative things I want to learn how to do.

555

00:35:09,580 --> 00:35:13,100

So I'll spend that's my time while they're at school.

556

00:35:13,100 --> 00:35:14,380

That's my time.

557

00:35:14,380 --> 00:35:19,760

And then on the weekends, I will, you know, I'll say I need an hour to work on my cross

558

00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,620

stitch or whatever I've been working on as a project.

559

00:35:22,620 --> 00:35:23,620

And they see me.

560

00:35:23,620 --> 00:35:24,620

I go off.

561

00:35:24,620 --> 00:35:25,620

I'm doing my own thing.

562

00:35:25,620 --> 00:35:29,380

And sometimes I involve them because especially with the older one, we have a lot of things

563

00:35:29,380 --> 00:35:36,220

in common that we like to do, like being out in nature and learning about natural things,

564

00:35:36,220 --> 00:35:37,220

foraging.

565

00:35:37,220 --> 00:35:40,380

So she'll come with me and we'll like forage some food and then we'll make it together

566

00:35:40,380 --> 00:35:43,820

and stuff like that, which I started for me.

567

00:35:43,820 --> 00:35:45,340

But then she seems involved in it.

568

00:35:45,340 --> 00:35:48,500

And I said to her, this is good because this is for you as well.

569

00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:51,260

And she's doing it without her sister, but without her friends.

570

00:35:51,260 --> 00:35:53,420

This is her thing that she likes to do.

571

00:35:53,420 --> 00:35:58,800

And I'm trying to also encourage my youngest slowly because she's still very young to kind

572

00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,580

of find her own thing as well.

573

00:36:00,580 --> 00:36:04,220

And it's just something that she likes and it's for her, but she doesn't have to do with

574

00:36:04,220 --> 00:36:08,940

her sister or her friends or me or her father or anyone.

575

00:36:08,940 --> 00:36:13,220

And yeah, so that's kind of how it's evolved.

576

00:36:13,220 --> 00:36:17,660

And so as it stands now, I have a day which I dedicate to things for me.

577

00:36:17,660 --> 00:36:18,660

And that's it.

578

00:36:18,660 --> 00:36:19,660

Good on you.

579

00:36:19,660 --> 00:36:25,540

And I love that you're instilling that in your girls from a young age that it's important

580

00:36:25,540 --> 00:36:46,700

to have that, you know, that thing that is yours.

581

00:36:46,700 --> 00:37:00,620

Did you find that when you weren't getting that time to do your own personal creativity,

582

00:37:00,620 --> 00:37:06,380

did you feel like your own identity was literally being taken away from you or threatened?

583

00:37:06,380 --> 00:37:10,620

I felt like I was just mom, mom or Elora the photographer.

584

00:37:10,620 --> 00:37:12,820

But I wasn't Elora.

585

00:37:12,820 --> 00:37:15,100

I was just mom.

586

00:37:15,100 --> 00:37:22,580

And yeah, and so I really, I felt like I was going down in this spiral of just stress and

587

00:37:22,580 --> 00:37:23,580

anxiety.

588

00:37:23,580 --> 00:37:27,340

I mean, I've always been a kind of anxious person, but you know, it was just getting

589

00:37:27,340 --> 00:37:28,340

worse.

590

00:37:28,340 --> 00:37:32,900

And I realized that there was one thing that had changed in my life besides becoming a

591

00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:34,660

mom.

592

00:37:34,660 --> 00:37:38,580

And it was that I had no space for me.

593

00:37:38,580 --> 00:37:43,380

So I started with those tiny little walks and I expanded it from there.

594

00:37:43,380 --> 00:37:47,340

And now I have a good check of time that's for me and I'm happy with that.

595

00:37:47,340 --> 00:37:54,460

And I feel like I am more balanced and I am a better mom to them as a consequence, because

596

00:37:54,460 --> 00:37:57,860

when it's time to be with them, I am with them.

597

00:37:57,860 --> 00:38:02,340

All of me is with them.

598

00:38:02,340 --> 00:38:07,580

And if you're anything like me, you feel quite sort of regulated and settled because you've

599

00:38:07,580 --> 00:38:10,180

had your needs met in the way that you need them.

600

00:38:10,180 --> 00:38:15,780

Like that sort of analogy of like your cup's full, like you can't pour from an empty cup.

601

00:38:15,780 --> 00:38:16,780

I just, I don't know.

602

00:38:16,780 --> 00:38:17,780

Do you feel that way?

603

00:38:17,780 --> 00:38:18,780

Yeah, no, I agree.

604

00:38:18,780 --> 00:38:27,380

Because, you know, for some people, it's like a spa day is what helps them to recharge and

605

00:38:27,380 --> 00:38:28,380

do their thing.

606

00:38:28,380 --> 00:38:29,380

That's not me.

607

00:38:29,380 --> 00:38:30,380

I am not.

608

00:38:30,380 --> 00:38:31,380

I get bored.

609

00:38:31,380 --> 00:38:32,380

I like it once in a while.

610

00:38:32,380 --> 00:38:33,380

Don't get me wrong.

611

00:38:33,380 --> 00:38:37,820

But the idea of going and having my nails done and stuff like that, it's just like,

612

00:38:37,820 --> 00:38:39,820

I've got better stuff to do with my time.

613

00:38:39,820 --> 00:38:40,820

Yeah.

614

00:38:40,820 --> 00:38:42,820

You've got a big long list of things you want to do.

615

00:38:42,820 --> 00:38:49,420

Yeah, I'd rather spend that on craft supplies, like, duh.

616

00:38:49,420 --> 00:38:52,420

Painting something else rather than someone painting your nails.

617

00:38:52,420 --> 00:38:54,420

No, I love that.

618

00:38:54,420 --> 00:38:56,420

No, good on you.

619

00:38:56,420 --> 00:38:58,420

We all have our things.

620

00:38:58,420 --> 00:38:59,420

Yeah.

621

00:38:59,420 --> 00:39:03,900

And that whole idea of actually communicating your needs, I feel like that's something that

622

00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:10,140

perhaps I might be generalizing, but women seem to not be that good at doing because

623

00:39:10,140 --> 00:39:12,860

we have all these expectations of what we're supposed to be.

624

00:39:12,860 --> 00:39:16,860

Society and the patriarchy encourages us to be a particular way.

625

00:39:16,860 --> 00:39:21,140

And so we think, oh, if I say that I need help with something or I want something, it's

626

00:39:21,140 --> 00:39:27,020

almost like we're not living up to that idealized, I'm putting these in air quotes, like this

627

00:39:27,020 --> 00:39:29,100

way we're supposed to be.

628

00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:30,100

Yeah.

629

00:39:30,100 --> 00:39:33,460

Do you feel like that's a fair assumption?

630

00:39:33,460 --> 00:39:34,780

Oh, I've had that.

631

00:39:34,780 --> 00:39:35,780

I've had that.

632

00:39:35,780 --> 00:39:41,940

And I still have moments where I have that, like the house is a bomb.

633

00:39:41,940 --> 00:39:44,420

I love looking at interior decorating magazines.

634

00:39:44,420 --> 00:39:51,500

Like, ah, the houses are so pretty and the color palette and it's so tidy and all these

635

00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:52,860

ideas for organization.

636

00:39:52,860 --> 00:39:55,220

I'm like, yeah, I'm totally doing that.

637

00:39:55,220 --> 00:39:57,220

And I'll buy all the stuff.

638

00:39:57,220 --> 00:40:02,420

I'll spend a whole day reorganizing the bookshelf only for three days later to look like it

639

00:40:02,420 --> 00:40:05,220

did before because nobody uses the system.

640

00:40:05,220 --> 00:40:09,380

And it's like, why am I incapable of doing that?

641

00:40:09,380 --> 00:40:13,500

Or just like the laundry kids ran out of uniforms.

642

00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:16,700

I'm like crap, just Febreze one from before.

643

00:40:16,700 --> 00:40:17,940

I can't do it.

644

00:40:17,940 --> 00:40:22,100

And then you see all the kids with their uniforms pressed and perfect and you're like, damn

645

00:40:22,100 --> 00:40:24,700

it, I suck at being a mom.

646

00:40:24,700 --> 00:40:26,380

And stuff like that.

647

00:40:26,380 --> 00:40:27,820

Or various things.

648

00:40:27,820 --> 00:40:33,540

I've forgotten to bring things into school or donate money for this or forgotten to take

649

00:40:33,540 --> 00:40:36,700

a child to this after school.

650

00:40:36,700 --> 00:40:37,700

All these things.

651

00:40:37,700 --> 00:40:39,420

And I'm like, I suck.

652

00:40:39,420 --> 00:40:40,420

I'm so bad.

653

00:40:40,420 --> 00:40:41,420

I am the worst mom ever.

654

00:40:41,420 --> 00:40:42,420

Oh my God.

655

00:40:42,420 --> 00:40:43,420

How many people do it?

656

00:40:43,420 --> 00:40:46,420

What's wrong with me that I can't do it?

657

00:40:46,420 --> 00:40:48,620

All these things.

658

00:40:48,620 --> 00:40:49,620

I get those moments.

659

00:40:49,620 --> 00:40:52,140

And then there's other days when I say, you know what?

660

00:40:52,140 --> 00:40:53,820

I only have 24 hours in a day.

661

00:40:53,820 --> 00:40:57,540

I need to sleep six, seven, preferably eight of them.

662

00:40:57,540 --> 00:41:04,900

And if I take away my actual work hours and I take away this and that, there's only this

663

00:41:04,900 --> 00:41:07,860

much left and I can only handle so much in my brain.

664

00:41:07,860 --> 00:41:08,860

And that's it.

665

00:41:08,860 --> 00:41:11,420

If it doesn't get done, I apologize to the kids.

666

00:41:11,420 --> 00:41:14,100

I'm like, kids, I'm sorry.

667

00:41:14,100 --> 00:41:15,100

Mommy didn't get to it.

668

00:41:15,100 --> 00:41:17,100

You'll have to just adjust.

669

00:41:17,100 --> 00:41:19,780

Next time maybe mommy will be better.

670

00:41:19,780 --> 00:41:20,780

You know?

671

00:41:20,780 --> 00:41:24,100

But even it's like, it's life, isn't it?

672

00:41:24,100 --> 00:41:26,340

Like there's just so much being thrown at us.

673

00:41:26,340 --> 00:41:30,740

And I feel like this, the mental load, which people are using this term a lot now, it's

674

00:41:30,740 --> 00:41:32,300

the perfect way to describe it.

675

00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:38,660

It's literally, you know, I used to wonder, you know, until I knew what that word meant

676

00:41:38,660 --> 00:41:43,540

or what, you know, the description behind it, I didn't know that's what I was feeling.

677

00:41:43,540 --> 00:41:47,340

When I got that description of what it is, I went, oh my God, no wonder I can't concentrate.

678

00:41:47,340 --> 00:41:48,540

No wonder I get distracted.

679

00:41:48,540 --> 00:41:54,140

No wonder, you know, things fall off the earth because there's just so much going on in my

680

00:41:54,140 --> 00:41:55,140

head.

681

00:41:55,140 --> 00:41:58,940

Whether I'm doing stuff or not, this head thing doesn't ever stop.

682

00:41:58,940 --> 00:42:01,100

You're always thinking, it stops.

683

00:42:01,100 --> 00:42:02,100

It's just insane.

684

00:42:02,100 --> 00:42:06,620

Swearing me out, just talking about it.

685

00:42:06,620 --> 00:42:09,020

Oh man.

686

00:42:09,020 --> 00:42:10,020

Yeah.

687

00:42:10,020 --> 00:42:13,020

No, no, no.

688

00:42:13,020 --> 00:42:16,580

Modern life, I guess, but anyway.

689

00:42:16,580 --> 00:42:17,580

So yeah, that's good.

690

00:42:17,580 --> 00:42:19,940

Cause I like to talk about identity.

691

00:42:19,940 --> 00:42:23,740

So I'm glad we've talked about that and I can definitely relate to what you're saying.

692

00:42:23,740 --> 00:42:27,060

I'm the sort of person that I need a lot of time on my own.

693

00:42:27,060 --> 00:42:28,060

Like same thing.

694

00:42:28,060 --> 00:42:29,060

I love being with people.

695

00:42:29,060 --> 00:42:30,060

I love socializing.

696

00:42:30,060 --> 00:42:36,980

I love doing stuff and going places, but damn, I need a bit of time to, to recompress, recompress

697

00:42:36,980 --> 00:42:39,900

afterwards.

698

00:42:39,900 --> 00:42:40,900

Just doing nothing.

699

00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:45,580

Actually, there was a post I shared on my Instagram a couple of days ago about like

700

00:42:45,580 --> 00:42:48,800

creative people need time to do nothing.

701

00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,380

It's literally a requirement of the creative brain.

702

00:42:51,380 --> 00:42:52,380

Yeah.

703

00:42:52,380 --> 00:42:56,020

So that's what I remind myself if I'm feeling like, Oh, I probably should fold that washing.

704

00:42:56,020 --> 00:42:58,260

It's like, no, you need time to just do nothing.

705

00:42:58,260 --> 00:42:59,260

It's okay.

706

00:42:59,260 --> 00:43:00,260

Yep.

707

00:43:00,260 --> 00:43:01,260

Just lay on the bed.

708

00:43:01,260 --> 00:43:27,860

Yeah.

709

00:43:27,860 --> 00:43:32,060

That actually brings me to another topic that I really like to talk to moms about, which

710

00:43:32,060 --> 00:43:34,020

is this whole mom guilt thing.

711

00:43:34,020 --> 00:43:36,700

And I'm putting that in air quotes again.

712

00:43:36,700 --> 00:43:44,180

Do you have any thoughts or feelings about the mom guilt conundrum?

713

00:43:44,180 --> 00:43:45,620

Conundrum, yeah.

714

00:43:45,620 --> 00:43:48,900

Mom guilt is real.

715

00:43:48,900 --> 00:43:49,900

There is no doubt.

716

00:43:49,900 --> 00:43:53,380

It's not just stuff that's made up.

717

00:43:53,380 --> 00:43:58,780

You know, it's a societal pressure to do it all and do it perfectly.

718

00:43:58,780 --> 00:44:04,460

And there are other moms who appear to do it all.

719

00:44:04,460 --> 00:44:08,900

But what we don't see is the stuff that they're struggling with on the other end, you know,

720

00:44:08,900 --> 00:44:14,820

so they're doing great on one side, but are they really doing great on the other?

721

00:44:14,820 --> 00:44:21,980

And I think it's something that I think it comes naturally as us because once you become

722

00:44:21,980 --> 00:44:24,900

a mother, it's like you change, right?

723

00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:32,220

You are, you become more nurturing and caring and you worry more.

724

00:44:32,220 --> 00:44:38,700

You worry more about your offspring because that's, I think, mother nature's way.

725

00:44:38,700 --> 00:44:40,620

That's how we survive as a species.

726

00:44:40,620 --> 00:44:44,980

We need to take care of our little ones so they can grow up and continue to procreate

727

00:44:44,980 --> 00:44:46,460

and keep the species going.

728

00:44:46,460 --> 00:44:52,660

And I think that something happens inside of us to most people.

729

00:44:52,660 --> 00:44:55,700

Not everyone's cut out to be a mom and that's your choice, right?

730

00:44:55,700 --> 00:45:03,780

But for most people, you tend to want to take care of and make everything perfect for your

731

00:45:03,780 --> 00:45:04,780

little people.

732

00:45:04,780 --> 00:45:07,300

You want to do the right thing.

733

00:45:07,300 --> 00:45:09,380

But what is the right thing?

734

00:45:09,380 --> 00:45:15,060

Because 10 different people will tell you 10 different things is the right thing.

735

00:45:15,060 --> 00:45:19,260

Like I think about when I was pregnant and I was researching and I was like, should I

736

00:45:19,260 --> 00:45:20,260

breastfeed?

737

00:45:20,260 --> 00:45:21,260

Should I not breastfeed?

738

00:45:21,260 --> 00:45:22,260

Is formula better?

739

00:45:22,260 --> 00:45:23,500

Is breast milk better?

740

00:45:23,500 --> 00:45:24,500

What happens if?

741

00:45:24,500 --> 00:45:25,500

What happens if?

742

00:45:25,500 --> 00:45:26,500

Blah, blah, blah.

743

00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:27,500

What's this probe?

744

00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:28,500

What's this con?

745

00:45:28,500 --> 00:45:32,260

And my head exploded and that was even before she was born.

746

00:45:32,260 --> 00:45:38,020

And then I made my choices and I managed with difficulty to go through that with the

747

00:45:38,020 --> 00:45:39,780

first one, especially.

748

00:45:39,780 --> 00:45:44,900

I wanted to breastfeed and I had trouble with my milk because we had a bit of a fun birth.

749

00:45:44,900 --> 00:45:49,020

So it was all things, but I persisted and we managed and then, you know, and then that

750

00:45:49,020 --> 00:45:52,980

screwed me over when she was older because I couldn't send her to nursery for a full

751

00:45:52,980 --> 00:45:55,860

day because she refused to take anything from milk in a bottle.

752

00:45:55,860 --> 00:45:56,860

Yeah.

753

00:45:56,860 --> 00:46:00,660

Even if it was my milk and I expressed it and I gave it to her in a bottle.

754

00:46:00,660 --> 00:46:01,660

Nope.

755

00:46:01,660 --> 00:46:02,660

Neither of them took bottles ever.

756

00:46:02,660 --> 00:46:06,100

So I screwed myself over in a way.

757

00:46:06,100 --> 00:46:09,380

But I felt at the time that that's what I should do.

758

00:46:09,380 --> 00:46:13,580

But then there was people like even my own mother, she's like, oh, just put some formula

759

00:46:13,580 --> 00:46:15,500

in a bottle, stick some pavlova in it.

760

00:46:15,500 --> 00:46:16,500

That's what I did with you.

761

00:46:16,500 --> 00:46:21,340

And I'm like, I'm like, you know, mom, things have changed.

762

00:46:21,340 --> 00:46:24,980

It's different parenting, isn't it?

763

00:46:24,980 --> 00:46:26,180

I prefer it this way.

764

00:46:26,180 --> 00:46:28,060

She's like, ah, rod for your own back.

765

00:46:28,060 --> 00:46:31,300

You know, the old saying, right?

766

00:46:31,300 --> 00:46:35,460

But you know, even within my own family, I had, you know, my mother-in-law saying one

767

00:46:35,460 --> 00:46:39,660

thing, my own mom saying another, my friend saying this, you know, my sister-in-law, that

768

00:46:39,660 --> 00:46:46,900

that friends this, you know, internet saying 400,000 things, the leading expert, the nurse,

769

00:46:46,900 --> 00:46:50,580

the midwife, everyone said something different.

770

00:46:50,580 --> 00:46:54,660

And it's like, you're going to feel guilty no matter what you choose.

771

00:46:54,660 --> 00:46:55,940

There's no other way.

772

00:46:55,940 --> 00:47:02,500

Yeah, because it's set up that way that no matter what you choose between A to Z, one

773

00:47:02,500 --> 00:47:06,020

of those things is going to be wrong for someone and you're going to feel guilty about it.

774

00:47:06,020 --> 00:47:08,020

And they're going to make you feel guilty about it.

775

00:47:08,020 --> 00:47:12,460

And for years and years, I let the guilt take over.

776

00:47:12,460 --> 00:47:17,460

I, you know, I said, you know, I have, I still have moments now where I'm like, oh, I'm such

777

00:47:17,460 --> 00:47:20,940

a terrible mom because I forgot this or forgot that.

778

00:47:20,940 --> 00:47:24,780

And then I'm trying to physically stop myself.

779

00:47:24,780 --> 00:47:32,340

You know, I'm really consciously trying to eradicate that guilt out of it because I realized

780

00:47:32,340 --> 00:47:34,660

that I say it out loud.

781

00:47:34,660 --> 00:47:37,500

You know, I'm like, oh, I'm such a bad mom.

782

00:47:37,500 --> 00:47:38,860

I totally forgot.

783

00:47:38,860 --> 00:47:40,780

I'm so sorry, kids.

784

00:47:40,780 --> 00:47:45,020

You know, mommy will try better next time.

785

00:47:45,020 --> 00:47:47,180

And then I'm like, I'm a bad mom?

786

00:47:47,180 --> 00:47:48,980

Why am I feeling guilty?

787

00:47:48,980 --> 00:47:53,060

Because I had to work and I couldn't take them to this birthday party or whatever.

788

00:47:53,060 --> 00:47:55,300

You know, I'm not bad.

789

00:47:55,300 --> 00:48:00,920

I happen to have to work, which is what lots of people do, to put food on the table to

790

00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:05,620

allow them to go to said parties to buy gifts for these friends.

791

00:48:05,620 --> 00:48:12,380

So I'm trying to consciously, if I hear myself say, oh, I'm such a bad mom, I say, actually,

792

00:48:12,380 --> 00:48:14,820

no, I'm just a little overwhelmed mom.

793

00:48:14,820 --> 00:48:15,820

Yeah.

794

00:48:15,820 --> 00:48:17,580

I try and rephrase it.

795

00:48:17,580 --> 00:48:22,980

And I tell them that I still apologize because I think it's right to, you know, recognize

796

00:48:22,980 --> 00:48:27,140

their feelings and that they're frustrated because they can't go to that party or whatever.

797

00:48:27,140 --> 00:48:33,580

But I still, I try and say to them, you know, I'm not a bad person and I shouldn't feel

798

00:48:33,580 --> 00:48:34,980

guilty about it.

799

00:48:34,980 --> 00:48:40,700

I feel sorry that I can't fulfill your desire today, but maybe we could do it tomorrow.

800

00:48:40,700 --> 00:48:42,700

Yeah, yeah.

801

00:48:42,700 --> 00:48:45,460

But you know, and I'm trying to consciously do that.

802

00:48:45,460 --> 00:48:49,460

It's like, you know, when you see yourself in the mirror, you're like, oh, the flab,

803

00:48:49,460 --> 00:48:53,380

you know, and it's like, no, this is my story.

804

00:48:53,380 --> 00:48:58,240

I had two kids, my belly has been stretched beyond compare and I'm impressed it's already

805

00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:00,740

gone back as much as it has.

806

00:49:00,740 --> 00:49:06,980

I should be impressed that I'm still not a watermelon, you know?

807

00:49:06,980 --> 00:49:09,260

Yeah, that's it, isn't it?

808

00:49:09,260 --> 00:49:10,260

Yeah.

809

00:49:10,260 --> 00:49:17,940

It's like, I'm trying to consciously change and reframe myself and my words because I

810

00:49:17,940 --> 00:49:20,260

know that they are going to affect them.

811

00:49:20,260 --> 00:49:26,160

And for when they decide to be moms, if they so choose to be moms, I don't want them to

812

00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:32,180

have to feel the weight of it from themselves because society is already going to put so

813

00:49:32,180 --> 00:49:33,180

much on them.

814

00:49:33,180 --> 00:49:35,180

Yeah, that's it, isn't it?

815

00:49:35,180 --> 00:49:36,180

Yeah.

816

00:49:36,180 --> 00:49:40,460

And I want them to feel safe in their own and safe in their own skin and in their own

817

00:49:40,460 --> 00:49:45,520

thoughts and being able to make their own choices and not feel bad that their choice

818

00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:50,180

is going to go against the grain for person X or person Y.

819

00:49:50,180 --> 00:49:53,900

Doesn't matter because it'll be fine for person A, you know?

820

00:49:53,900 --> 00:49:56,100

Yeah, no, I could on you.

821

00:49:56,100 --> 00:49:57,100

That's very inspiring.

822

00:49:57,100 --> 00:49:59,140

That was very long and rambly.

823

00:49:59,140 --> 00:50:02,980

No, no, that was great because yeah, that's the thing.

824

00:50:02,980 --> 00:50:07,300

If we're in tune enough to be able to catch these thoughts, whatever they may be, but

825

00:50:07,300 --> 00:50:11,520

particularly around guilt, I think is really important because we are literally fighting

826

00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:12,520

an uphill battle.

827

00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:17,300

Like you said, the scales are tipped against us.

828

00:50:17,300 --> 00:50:18,740

They're not in our favor.

829

00:50:18,740 --> 00:50:22,460

And anything we do is going to be judged by somebody else, whether it's in real life or

830

00:50:22,460 --> 00:50:28,860

on the internet or, you know, we judge ourselves by what we see someone's doing on Instagram.

831

00:50:28,860 --> 00:50:31,980

If we can catch that and go, actually hang on a minute.

832

00:50:31,980 --> 00:50:34,340

I'm actually a really good mom.

833

00:50:34,340 --> 00:50:38,740

And like I said, overwhelmed at the minute or I'm just having a bit of an off day or

834

00:50:38,740 --> 00:50:40,420

whoops, never mind.

835

00:50:40,420 --> 00:50:45,900

Like, you know, like just giving ourselves a break, cutting ourselves some slack and

836

00:50:45,900 --> 00:50:48,660

not being so hard on ourselves, I think.

837

00:50:48,660 --> 00:50:49,660

That's true.

838

00:50:49,660 --> 00:50:50,660

Yeah.

839

00:50:50,660 --> 00:50:52,780

It's frustrating because you want to do it all.

840

00:50:52,780 --> 00:50:57,500

Maybe your brain wants to do it all, but your body can't handle it and time constraints

841

00:50:57,500 --> 00:50:58,740

just can't do it.

842

00:50:58,740 --> 00:51:05,540

And it's also being kind to yourself and realizing that you can't juggle everything.

843

00:51:05,540 --> 00:51:11,380

And I think that's the first step is to recognize that we are not machines.

844

00:51:11,380 --> 00:51:17,740

We are human and we can only do so much with what we have.

845

00:51:17,740 --> 00:51:18,740

That's it, isn't it?

846

00:51:18,740 --> 00:51:23,900

And being mindful that, you know, when we're being told these things, you know, particularly

847

00:51:23,900 --> 00:51:31,580

from women or whoever's from other generations, when they raised children, it was a completely

848

00:51:31,580 --> 00:51:33,300

different social setup.

849

00:51:33,300 --> 00:51:37,340

You know, there wasn't two parents usually working.

850

00:51:37,340 --> 00:51:40,500

It was one parent at the home all the time.

851

00:51:40,500 --> 00:51:46,780

And so, you know, maybe things were different and achievable on different levels.

852

00:51:46,780 --> 00:51:51,660

So yeah, putting things in context, I think can be useful and not just taking somebody's

853

00:51:51,660 --> 00:51:54,340

advice and going, oh no, I can't do that.

854

00:51:54,340 --> 00:51:55,340

I must be really bad.

855

00:51:55,340 --> 00:51:59,820

It's like, actually, the world has changed a lot since then or whatever it might be,

856

00:51:59,820 --> 00:52:00,820

you know.

857

00:52:00,820 --> 00:52:01,820

Yeah.

858

00:52:01,820 --> 00:52:02,820

I don't know.

859

00:52:02,820 --> 00:52:05,980

You feel like you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't, don't you?

860

00:52:05,980 --> 00:52:07,460

But it is, that's what it is.

861

00:52:07,460 --> 00:52:09,020

We have to do what's right for you.

862

00:52:09,020 --> 00:52:10,020

Yeah, you do.

863

00:52:10,020 --> 00:52:15,620

And as long as you're a good person overall, it shouldn't really matter how you do it.

864

00:52:15,620 --> 00:52:20,020

Yeah, as long as you and your family and your children are all happy.

865

00:52:20,020 --> 00:52:21,020

Yeah.

866

00:52:21,020 --> 00:52:22,020

Stuff for everyone else.

867

00:52:22,020 --> 00:52:23,020

Yeah, pretty much.

868

00:52:23,020 --> 00:52:50,020

Yeah.

869

00:52:50,020 --> 00:52:54,820

Okay, so in terms of like what influences you with your photography, like you talk about

870

00:52:54,820 --> 00:52:59,540

doing your own, you've done your own projects when you first sort of picked up the camera

871

00:52:59,540 --> 00:53:04,500

and you're taking pictures of nature or, you know, things in the world and things like

872

00:53:04,500 --> 00:53:06,740

just as from your perspective.

873

00:53:06,740 --> 00:53:11,740

Have you found that since you became a mum that maybe what you're looking at is different

874

00:53:11,740 --> 00:53:14,620

or what's influencing you is different?

875

00:53:14,620 --> 00:53:15,620

Absolutely.

876

00:53:15,620 --> 00:53:21,900

You know, if I had kids, I would go on lots of hikes and I was interested in taking pictures

877

00:53:21,900 --> 00:53:29,260

of butterflies and pretty flowers and light and landscapes and the water and whatever

878

00:53:29,260 --> 00:53:34,880

else happened by or when I was traveling, obviously, you know, there's like 4,000 pictures

879

00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:39,380

of the Eiffel Tower from when I went to Paris because that's what you do.

880

00:53:39,380 --> 00:53:44,780

And that's what I was doing, you know, different angles, random things, experimenting, everything.

881

00:53:44,780 --> 00:53:52,100

But you know, I would just kind of focused on that.

882

00:53:52,100 --> 00:53:58,500

Like I was thinking about taking pretty things, pretty pictures, and there wasn't really a

883

00:53:58,500 --> 00:54:03,780

meaning or anything deeper in the images.

884

00:54:03,780 --> 00:54:06,300

I just liked the photographic medium.

885

00:54:06,300 --> 00:54:11,260

I liked how I could express with it and play with it, but I didn't necessarily want to

886

00:54:11,260 --> 00:54:13,900

say anything with it.

887

00:54:13,900 --> 00:54:17,140

If that makes sense.

888

00:54:17,140 --> 00:54:23,900

I did have some brief moments when I turned 30 where I was like, oh, I'm getting old.

889

00:54:23,900 --> 00:54:30,940

And I wanted to, I started to experiment with some self-portraiture a little bit just to

890

00:54:30,940 --> 00:54:34,220

see how I was changing and how things were going.

891

00:54:34,220 --> 00:54:39,900

I was getting to that age where, you know, I had just gotten married and I was wanting

892

00:54:39,900 --> 00:54:45,820

to start a family, so I wanted to start kind of documenting me and how I was going to change.

893

00:54:45,820 --> 00:54:50,500

And so that's, I would say that 30 is when I started to try and say something with my

894

00:54:50,500 --> 00:54:54,580

photography, whether I was good at it or not, it's a whole different story.

895

00:54:54,580 --> 00:55:01,780

But I did try and do something specific with my work.

896

00:55:01,780 --> 00:55:06,540

And so I started kind of experimenting on, you know, trying to do self-portraits with

897

00:55:06,540 --> 00:55:10,340

what I had and all that kind of stuff.

898

00:55:10,340 --> 00:55:16,860

Then I had baby number one and baby number one became the center focus of everything.

899

00:55:16,860 --> 00:55:22,060

It was documenting every moment, you know, look at the spit bubble, how cute.

900

00:55:22,060 --> 00:55:27,900

And you know, it's like, you know, and then I started to follow like all these moms on

901

00:55:27,900 --> 00:55:31,660

Instagram doing all these cool things with their babies and these photographers, other

902

00:55:31,660 --> 00:55:32,900

things doing stuff.

903

00:55:32,900 --> 00:55:41,420

And also I was trying to launch the business and so my personal photography kind of got

904

00:55:41,420 --> 00:55:48,900

set aside and it was only just taking pictures of the kids as they started to grow and develop.

905

00:55:48,900 --> 00:55:51,820

And then at a certain point, something else clicked.

906

00:55:51,820 --> 00:55:56,580

And I think it's when they started to, you know, question things again, after they were

907

00:55:56,580 --> 00:56:02,300

that little needy ball of stuff that just needed you 100% when started to talk.

908

00:56:02,300 --> 00:56:06,180

And have tiny little conversations in their own way.

909

00:56:06,180 --> 00:56:14,340

And they started asking me things and I was like, you know, that's a very good question.

910

00:56:14,340 --> 00:56:18,460

Children have an unfiltered view of the world and they ask things they don't care about

911

00:56:18,460 --> 00:56:20,540

matters or whatever.

912

00:56:20,540 --> 00:56:26,380

And you know, and it really started when one of my daughters, she saw I was just getting

913

00:56:26,380 --> 00:56:31,300

changed and she saw my stretch marks on my belly and she's like, mommy, what are those?

914

00:56:31,300 --> 00:56:32,780

And I said, oh, they're stretch marks.

915

00:56:32,780 --> 00:56:34,340

And she's like, what's a stretch mark?

916

00:56:34,340 --> 00:56:35,340

Because as you do.

917

00:56:35,340 --> 00:56:39,860

And I said, oh, it's what happens when you have a, when your belly grows.

918

00:56:39,860 --> 00:56:43,580

And usually when you have a baby because your skin stretches, but it doesn't go back together

919

00:56:43,580 --> 00:56:44,580

again.

920

00:56:44,580 --> 00:56:48,260

And she's like, do you like them?

921

00:56:48,260 --> 00:56:51,780

And I was like, that is a very good question.

922

00:56:51,780 --> 00:56:53,300

Do I like them?

923

00:56:53,300 --> 00:56:54,640

And it got me thinking.

924

00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:59,220

And so I randomly took pictures of my stretch marks.

925

00:56:59,220 --> 00:57:08,060

You know, and I started this kind of idea of taking self portraits of me as I am now,

926

00:57:08,060 --> 00:57:14,060

you know, with the saggy belly, with the, you know, using it as like a therapy for my

927

00:57:14,060 --> 00:57:19,180

frustrations because as I said, I was all mom and business and I didn't do personal

928

00:57:19,180 --> 00:57:20,180

work.

929

00:57:20,180 --> 00:57:23,300

So this was one of my first steps was taking self portraits.

930

00:57:23,300 --> 00:57:28,660

And I started doing a series of self portraits, which are still ongoing.

931

00:57:28,660 --> 00:57:34,180

And I think I'll probably end up doing them my whole life because I will keep changing.

932

00:57:34,180 --> 00:57:38,820

And I love to see how they've changed and how I've changed.

933

00:57:38,820 --> 00:57:40,540

Even my body has changed.

934

00:57:40,540 --> 00:57:44,340

And sometimes you see yourself in a certain way and then you see yourself in a picture

935

00:57:44,340 --> 00:57:47,980

and you're like, wow, that's nothing like I see myself.

936

00:57:47,980 --> 00:57:50,060

And sometimes it's a good thing.

937

00:57:50,060 --> 00:57:53,020

Sometimes it's not such a good thing.

938

00:57:53,020 --> 00:57:57,500

You know, but, but it's still, it's made me think about, I can actually say something

939

00:57:57,500 --> 00:57:59,580

with what I want to do.

940

00:57:59,580 --> 00:58:06,140

So I started doing personal, just thinking of something on the theme and doing personal

941

00:58:06,140 --> 00:58:07,140

work.

942

00:58:07,140 --> 00:58:11,740

And so my self portraits has been a big ongoing one.

943

00:58:11,740 --> 00:58:20,460

Another one that I have been doing slowly is exploring the concept of what family is.

944

00:58:20,460 --> 00:58:22,380

And it's called the We Are Family Project.

945

00:58:22,380 --> 00:58:27,420

And basically I'm out photographing families using creative lenses, but families that are

946

00:58:27,420 --> 00:58:31,060

mom, dad, and 2.5 kids and a cat and dog.

947

00:58:31,060 --> 00:58:36,460

So yeah, of course there's a family with mom and dad and 2.5 kids and a dog.

948

00:58:36,460 --> 00:58:42,820

And then there's a family with just one mom, or there's a family with two moms, or there's

949

00:58:42,820 --> 00:58:48,260

a family with no kids, just the dog, or there's a family with a child with special needs, you

950

00:58:48,260 --> 00:58:55,580

know, and I'm trying to photograph as much diversity of what family is.

951

00:58:55,580 --> 00:58:59,900

And it reminds me of that episode of your podcast episode where you interviewed that

952

00:58:59,900 --> 00:59:03,700

lady that had IVF and she decided to be a mom.

953

00:59:03,700 --> 00:59:04,700

Yes, Alisha.

954

00:59:04,700 --> 00:59:05,700

It was Alisha.

955

00:59:05,700 --> 00:59:06,700

Yeah.

956

00:59:06,700 --> 00:59:12,740

And she talked about her IVF journey and how she was writing a book, I think, about normalizing

957

00:59:12,740 --> 00:59:13,740

family.

958

00:59:13,740 --> 00:59:18,580

And I was like, oh, and it's like, I was like, see, that's in the lines of my project.

959

00:59:18,580 --> 00:59:21,060

It's to normalize what family is.

960

00:59:21,060 --> 00:59:22,860

Family can be anything.

961

00:59:22,860 --> 00:59:24,340

Family can be multi-generations.

962

00:59:24,340 --> 00:59:30,020

I had a family where mom was living with her single daughter and her two kids, and that

963

00:59:30,020 --> 00:59:31,980

was the family.

964

00:59:31,980 --> 00:59:36,860

So I've been working on that project as well slowly over the years.

965

00:59:36,860 --> 00:59:43,100

I've done a few families and I'm recently starting a new one that I'm actually photographing

966

00:59:43,100 --> 00:59:47,180

my first model for today.

967

00:59:47,180 --> 00:59:51,620

And I'm calling it the Kintsugi Mama project and it has to do with stretch marks.

968

00:59:51,620 --> 00:59:53,140

Yeah, right.

969

00:59:53,140 --> 00:59:57,660

So it came from, and it's kind of been simmering in the back there for a few years, from when

970

00:59:57,660 --> 01:00:00,060

my daughter asked me about the stretch marks.

971

01:00:00,060 --> 01:00:05,460

And then one day I told her that, you know what, I thought about your question and I

972

01:00:05,460 --> 01:00:11,100

think I like my stretch marks because they're the story of you and your sister.

973

01:00:11,100 --> 01:00:14,700

And my skin broke, but it healed together.

974

01:00:14,700 --> 01:00:20,100

And then I found out about this Japanese practice of Kintsugi, which is repairing broken pottery

975

01:00:20,100 --> 01:00:21,100

with gold.

976

01:00:21,100 --> 01:00:22,700

I don't know if you've heard of it.

977

01:00:22,700 --> 01:00:23,700

Yeah.

978

01:00:23,700 --> 01:00:24,700

Yeah.

979

01:00:24,700 --> 01:00:28,220

And I was like, they work, they work together.

980

01:00:28,220 --> 01:00:32,260

So I got in touch with a friend of mine who's a face painter and I'm like, I need gold face

981

01:00:32,260 --> 01:00:34,300

paint that's safe and this and that.

982

01:00:34,300 --> 01:00:37,460

I've got this idea and I need to do it.

983

01:00:37,460 --> 01:00:43,820

And so I sat down and very trickly with a mirror painted my own stretch marks in gold

984

01:00:43,820 --> 01:00:46,180

face paint and I photographed it.

985

01:00:46,180 --> 01:00:48,900

And I said, this is the beginning of a new project.

986

01:00:48,900 --> 01:00:50,460

It's not just my stretch marks.

987

01:00:50,460 --> 01:00:58,180

All of our stretch marks, whether we have two or 4,000, they tell our story and they

988

01:00:58,180 --> 01:01:03,060

are when our body broke and it fixed itself and fixed itself in a beautiful way.

989

01:01:03,060 --> 01:01:04,620

And it's something I want to highlight.

990

01:01:04,620 --> 01:01:12,860

So I've called in a few moms of all shapes and sizes and I am painting their stretch

991

01:01:12,860 --> 01:01:15,740

marks in gold and photographing it.

992

01:01:15,740 --> 01:01:17,420

I love it.

993

01:01:17,420 --> 01:01:18,420

Photographing them.

994

01:01:18,420 --> 01:01:20,220

And so I'm super excited about this.

995

01:01:20,220 --> 01:01:21,220

I had to put it off.

996

01:01:21,220 --> 01:01:25,580

I was supposed to do it last week, but I had a surgery and recovery took way too long.

997

01:01:25,580 --> 01:01:30,020

And so I'm doing it again this week and I'm super excited to be doing that.

998

01:01:30,020 --> 01:01:35,380

And I have something to say and I think we all have something to say.

999

01:01:35,380 --> 01:01:36,820

And it goes into so many things.

1000

01:01:36,820 --> 01:01:43,820

It goes into Bosby positive and mom positive and empowering us to appreciate what our bodies

1001

01:01:43,820 --> 01:01:44,820

do.

1002

01:01:44,820 --> 01:01:52,100

Society is like we're all airbrushed and photoshopped and no, we aren't.

1003

01:01:52,100 --> 01:01:53,100

Yeah.

1004

01:01:53,100 --> 01:01:54,100

Yeah.

1005

01:01:54,100 --> 01:01:55,740

No, I absolutely love that.

1006

01:01:55,740 --> 01:01:59,620

I just, it's actually made me a little bit emotional to be honest, because I just think

1007

01:01:59,620 --> 01:02:06,020

I resonate with that so deeply that society wants us to fix, to be fixed and to not look

1008

01:02:06,020 --> 01:02:08,740

like we've ever gone through anything bad.

1009

01:02:08,740 --> 01:02:13,340

We have to hold up this perfect persona or perception of ourselves.

1010

01:02:13,340 --> 01:02:19,020

It's like, why are we so afraid to hide these parts of us that show the amazing things we've

1011

01:02:19,020 --> 01:02:20,020

done?

1012

01:02:20,020 --> 01:02:26,220

You know, it's pretty bloody amazing to have to carry a child and to birth a child.

1013

01:02:26,220 --> 01:02:31,660

It's just like, why do we have to hide that and be afraid of what people, I don't know.

1014

01:02:31,660 --> 01:02:34,940

To me it's patriarchy, but anyway, that's my take on it.

1015

01:02:34,940 --> 01:02:36,940

Cause we would have to be perfect.

1016

01:02:36,940 --> 01:02:38,940

We do it to ourselves as well.

1017

01:02:38,940 --> 01:02:39,940

Yeah, we do.

1018

01:02:39,940 --> 01:02:40,940

We play into that.

1019

01:02:40,940 --> 01:02:41,940

We do it.

1020

01:02:41,940 --> 01:02:42,940

It's not just men.

1021

01:02:42,940 --> 01:02:47,620

It was just men and the patriarchy and it's conditioned generations and generations and

1022

01:02:47,620 --> 01:02:51,100

generations of women, but we do it to ourselves.

1023

01:02:51,100 --> 01:02:57,980

I mean, I know lots of amazing photographers and I'm not to, you know, lessen their work

1024

01:02:57,980 --> 01:03:05,340

or anything, but they do these maternity photos that are, oh my God, they're stunning.

1025

01:03:05,340 --> 01:03:11,100

And these women have porcelain skin, smooth skin, not a blemish.

1026

01:03:11,100 --> 01:03:17,700

I mean, it looks, well, they're like models, beautiful models with flowing dresses and

1027

01:03:17,700 --> 01:03:19,740

a perfect bump.

1028

01:03:19,740 --> 01:03:22,100

And they look amazing.

1029

01:03:22,100 --> 01:03:25,020

And that's great because that's what they want them to look like.

1030

01:03:25,020 --> 01:03:28,520

These women have gone to these people because that's what they want to feel.

1031

01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:33,340

But then when you're done and you look at yourself and you look at that picture you

1032

01:03:33,340 --> 01:03:38,620

have on the wall, is that really you?

1033

01:03:38,620 --> 01:03:43,780

And are you appreciating you for you or are you appreciating you for that glorious portrait

1034

01:03:43,780 --> 01:03:46,700

that you've had done, which is beautiful.

1035

01:03:46,700 --> 01:03:53,420

And I love that, you know, we can as photographers do this and make someone feel how amazing

1036

01:03:53,420 --> 01:03:56,900

they truly are if they can look past their imperfections.

1037

01:03:56,900 --> 01:04:02,580

I think you can see that as one of the reasons behind that kind of very photoshopped kind

1038

01:04:02,580 --> 01:04:05,180

of photography.

1039

01:04:05,180 --> 01:04:08,020

But I prefer to say, I'm not, don't need to see past it.

1040

01:04:08,020 --> 01:04:09,380

I need to embrace it.

1041

01:04:09,380 --> 01:04:14,540

And it's been part of my own journey doing this and doing these projects and part of

1042

01:04:14,540 --> 01:04:20,620

my own personal journey as well to accepting my body for what it is and understanding that

1043

01:04:20,620 --> 01:04:25,520

it's a map of my life and it's my story and that of my children, it connects me to them.

1044

01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:31,420

Those stretch marks, each one of those connects me to one of my kids.

1045

01:04:31,420 --> 01:04:35,860

And I think that it's so important to help other people to understand that as well.

1046

01:04:35,860 --> 01:04:43,260

So I'm really hoping that this project will take off and become something a bit more and

1047

01:04:43,260 --> 01:04:47,940

take, you know, I don't know, I don't know where it's going to go, but I'm hoping that

1048

01:04:47,940 --> 01:04:50,340

it will make an impact on someone somewhere.

1049

01:04:50,340 --> 01:04:51,340

Oh, I love it.

1050

01:04:51,340 --> 01:04:53,500

I just think it's just so wonderful.

1051

01:04:53,500 --> 01:04:58,700

Honestly, I wish I was closer to you because I'd let you paint mine.

1052

01:04:58,700 --> 01:05:02,900

I would love to have you if you ever come and brought over this way and decided the

1053

01:05:02,900 --> 01:05:05,780

world stopped by and I will happily add you.

1054

01:05:05,780 --> 01:05:08,220

Yeah, no, I love, I just love that.

1055

01:05:08,220 --> 01:05:12,300

I think, yeah, like I said, sorry, I'm getting, I'm getting a bit emotional because I just

1056

01:05:12,300 --> 01:05:18,220

think it's, oh, I don't know, maybe it's because I'm getting tired, but you know what I mean?

1057

01:05:18,220 --> 01:05:19,220

I am sorry.

1058

01:05:19,220 --> 01:05:20,580

No, no, it's good.

1059

01:05:20,580 --> 01:05:28,380

I just, the more people that can do stuff like what you're doing and also the, your

1060

01:05:28,380 --> 01:05:34,540

models, you know, to be able to put themselves out there too, that's massive.

1061

01:05:34,540 --> 01:05:38,460

You know, like that takes, like you've said, you're, you know, through your work, it's

1062

01:05:38,460 --> 01:05:42,540

you working through things for someone to rock up and say, yep, no worries.

1063

01:05:42,540 --> 01:05:43,540

Here I am.

1064

01:05:43,540 --> 01:05:44,540

Put me out there.

1065

01:05:44,540 --> 01:05:46,540

You know, it's, it's a big thing.

1066

01:05:46,540 --> 01:05:53,540

I mean, when I did the model call, I posted and shared it in a local breastfeeding group

1067

01:05:53,540 --> 01:05:57,340

that I'm part of still from when I was feeding my girls.

1068

01:05:57,340 --> 01:06:01,860

And you know, I had a lot of people interested in the concept, but then when I explained

1069

01:06:01,860 --> 01:06:05,940

exactly what it was going to be, a lot of people said, I'm not ready for that yet.

1070

01:06:05,940 --> 01:06:06,940

And that's okay.

1071

01:06:06,940 --> 01:06:10,420

They said, I might be after, and I'm like, that's okay.

1072

01:06:10,420 --> 01:06:13,260

It doesn't matter when you're ready.

1073

01:06:13,260 --> 01:06:15,340

You let me know and we'll do this.

1074

01:06:15,340 --> 01:06:18,340

And I had others say, yeah, let's do it, man.

1075

01:06:18,340 --> 01:06:23,900

I'm totally wanting to work on my image and I want to, I want to help myself.

1076

01:06:23,900 --> 01:06:28,100

And they see it as part of something that they can work on together too.

1077

01:06:28,100 --> 01:06:29,380

And that's okay too.

1078

01:06:29,380 --> 01:06:35,020

And when you're ready, it's very hard for us to accept ourselves as we are, no matter

1079

01:06:35,020 --> 01:06:42,660

what shape, size we are, you know, how we see ourselves or how we want to see ourselves.

1080

01:06:42,660 --> 01:06:49,980

It's so, so very different from what we really are.

1081

01:06:49,980 --> 01:06:53,660

I don't know if that makes any sense at all, but yeah.

1082

01:06:53,660 --> 01:06:54,660

Yeah.

1083

01:06:54,660 --> 01:06:59,780

And the way that people actually see us, I think is it can be really different from how

1084

01:06:59,780 --> 01:07:01,700

we want to be seen.

1085

01:07:01,700 --> 01:07:08,020

So you know, we put these fields like Instagram or TikTok, I'm not on TikTok, but you know,

1086

01:07:08,020 --> 01:07:14,860

we put these filters on to try and, you know, create this artificial way of presenting ourselves

1087

01:07:14,860 --> 01:07:17,980

because we think people will like that more or you know what I mean?

1088

01:07:17,980 --> 01:07:22,820

Like it's just, I know it's a bit disturbing really, when you think about it, like we had,

1089

01:07:22,820 --> 01:07:29,300

oh, you could go down a rabbit hole with all that stuff, you know, and talk about it for

1090

01:07:29,300 --> 01:07:31,580

ages and debate and everything.

1091

01:07:31,580 --> 01:07:33,580

So I just, yeah.

1092

01:07:33,580 --> 01:07:38,100

I think it's a good way to be here all day.

1093

01:07:38,100 --> 01:07:39,100

I know.

1094

01:07:39,100 --> 01:07:41,580

No, but look, what you're doing is amazing.

1095

01:07:41,580 --> 01:07:42,580

It really is.

1096

01:07:42,580 --> 01:07:46,140

If there is anyone that's in your neck of the woods that would like to get involved

1097

01:07:46,140 --> 01:07:50,740

in that, is your Instagram the best place to go or do you have...

1098

01:07:50,740 --> 01:07:56,420

Yeah, I have, I've created a little account for it on my Instagram.

1099

01:07:56,420 --> 01:07:59,300

It's called Kintsugi Mama Project.

1100

01:07:59,300 --> 01:08:03,820

I can send it to you when I send you all the links and stuff.

1101

01:08:03,820 --> 01:08:05,740

Yeah, that would be great.

1102

01:08:05,740 --> 01:08:06,740

Yeah.

1103

01:08:06,740 --> 01:08:07,740

And it's on there.

1104

01:08:07,740 --> 01:08:11,940

Of course I've already, I've shared it also on my personal work profile, which is life

1105

01:08:11,940 --> 01:08:20,540

is wild and free, but Instagram took it down because it promoted, you know, something.

1106

01:08:20,540 --> 01:08:22,500

Oh for goodness sake.

1107

01:08:22,500 --> 01:08:25,220

That's part of the problem, isn't it?

1108

01:08:25,220 --> 01:08:26,940

Yeah, it is.

1109

01:08:26,940 --> 01:08:30,540

Because that account, I think, has more followers.

1110

01:08:30,540 --> 01:08:32,100

So someone must have reported it.

1111

01:08:32,100 --> 01:08:35,860

It must have bothered someone to see my belly in gold.

1112

01:08:35,860 --> 01:08:38,820

Oh for God's sake.

1113

01:08:38,820 --> 01:08:44,580

But that picture is still on the Kintsugi Mama one because it's a smaller number of

1114

01:08:44,580 --> 01:08:45,580

followers.

1115

01:08:45,580 --> 01:08:47,780

It probably hasn't peaked anyone's attention yet.

1116

01:08:47,780 --> 01:08:50,820

So at the moment, it's still there.

1117

01:08:50,820 --> 01:08:56,900

I can foresee that I will have some trouble sharing some of these pieces uncensored on

1118

01:08:56,900 --> 01:08:58,900

Instagram.

1119

01:08:58,900 --> 01:09:05,420

So I am going to be setting up a section on my website for it because that's mine and

1120

01:09:05,420 --> 01:09:09,940

I can decide what I share and what I don't and no one can take it down.

1121

01:09:09,940 --> 01:09:12,100

Yeah, as far as I know.

1122

01:09:12,100 --> 01:09:14,860

So I will be doing that to share a bit more of it.

1123

01:09:14,860 --> 01:09:21,300

But as it stands at the moment, it is just on Instagram and I have a little newsletter

1124

01:09:21,300 --> 01:09:26,020

that I started writing for the ones that answered the model call and stuff to keep them updated

1125

01:09:26,020 --> 01:09:28,140

on how the project is doing.

1126

01:09:28,140 --> 01:09:33,180

But I'll be developing that as it comes to help and also get subscribers on that list

1127

01:09:33,180 --> 01:09:38,780

so people can follow it without having to be worrying about what Facebook or Instagram

1128

01:09:38,780 --> 01:09:46,100

or TikTok or whatever platform you have as their personal opinion on a woman's body.

1129

01:09:46,100 --> 01:09:47,100

So yeah.

1130

01:09:47,100 --> 01:09:50,100

Yeah, but I don't know.

1131

01:09:50,100 --> 01:09:53,380

Yeah, we could talk about this or not.

1132

01:09:53,380 --> 01:09:56,300

It just really frustrates me.

1133

01:09:56,300 --> 01:10:02,220

Anyway, I'll put all the links in the show notes so people can click away and keep updated.

1134

01:10:02,220 --> 01:10:03,940

And I think that's wonderful and all the best with it.

1135

01:10:03,940 --> 01:10:06,820

I really think that is amazing.

1136

01:10:06,820 --> 01:10:08,860

I really like it is and I love the tie in.

1137

01:10:08,860 --> 01:10:12,620

I love how your mind went there to bring those two ideas together.

1138

01:10:12,620 --> 01:10:13,620

I think that's brilliant.

1139

01:10:13,620 --> 01:10:14,620

Oh yeah.

1140

01:10:14,620 --> 01:10:17,060

Oh, it's fun to follow the brain, isn't it?

1141

01:10:17,060 --> 01:10:21,060

It's just like these two random things like I can do something with that.

1142

01:10:21,060 --> 01:10:22,060

Oh yeah.

1143

01:10:22,060 --> 01:10:23,060

Yeah.

1144

01:10:23,060 --> 01:10:26,900

I love moments like that where you get something and then you sort of go, oh, now this is something,

1145

01:10:26,900 --> 01:10:29,540

you know, because you always got stuff going through your head.

1146

01:10:29,540 --> 01:10:33,620

And then it's like you stop and go, oh yeah, oh, I like that one.

1147

01:10:33,620 --> 01:10:36,020

You know what I mean?

1148

01:10:36,020 --> 01:10:37,420

That's the one I'm going to cling to.

1149

01:10:37,420 --> 01:10:38,420

Yeah.

1150

01:10:38,420 --> 01:10:40,580

Because you have so many things and it's like you can't do them all.

1151

01:10:40,580 --> 01:10:41,580

Yeah.

1152

01:10:41,580 --> 01:10:45,500

You can't do them all well, but the one that really sings to you, that all comes together

1153

01:10:45,500 --> 01:10:47,500

and you're like, that's the one.

1154

01:10:47,500 --> 01:10:48,940

That's the one you're doing.

1155

01:10:48,940 --> 01:10:49,940

Yeah.

1156

01:10:49,940 --> 01:10:50,940

So that's what I'm going with now.

1157

01:10:50,940 --> 01:10:51,940

Good on you.

1158

01:10:51,940 --> 01:10:52,940

I love that.

1159

01:10:52,940 --> 01:10:53,940

I actually had a moment like that.

1160

01:10:53,940 --> 01:10:59,420

I went to Adelaide, which is like the capital city of my state over the weekend by myself,

1161

01:10:59,420 --> 01:11:02,020

totally by myself, no children, no husband.

1162

01:11:02,020 --> 01:11:06,860

It was just amazing because I had a singing gig on in the city and driving home, I had

1163

01:11:06,860 --> 01:11:09,780

one of those moments where I just was listening to a song.

1164

01:11:09,780 --> 01:11:11,300

So I'm a massive Beatles fan.

1165

01:11:11,300 --> 01:11:14,900

So I was listening to the Beatles and all of a sudden I had this idea.

1166

01:11:14,900 --> 01:11:19,220

And by the time I'd gotten home, I'd planned this whole idea for my album I'm going to

1167

01:11:19,220 --> 01:11:20,940

do and all these songs I'm going to do.

1168

01:11:20,940 --> 01:11:25,020

And it's like, you know, just things just, once they start, they just go and go and go.

1169

01:11:25,020 --> 01:11:27,100

And now I've got to try and find time to do it.

1170

01:11:27,100 --> 01:11:28,100

That's the next thing.

1171

01:11:28,100 --> 01:11:29,100

Yeah, that's true.

1172

01:11:29,100 --> 01:11:30,100

Yeah.

1173

01:11:30,100 --> 01:11:35,420

I find that if I write it down, I'm able to get it out of my head and then I can actually

1174

01:11:35,420 --> 01:11:37,480

still remember the stuff.

1175

01:11:37,480 --> 01:11:42,460

So I have a notebook because mine come right before I'm about to fall asleep.

1176

01:11:42,460 --> 01:11:43,460

Yes.

1177

01:11:43,460 --> 01:11:44,460

Yep.

1178

01:11:44,460 --> 01:11:45,460

Yep.

1179

01:11:45,460 --> 01:11:46,460

Or when I'm driving, that's another one.

1180

01:11:46,460 --> 01:11:50,460

So I always have a little notebook and a pen near my bed.

1181

01:11:50,460 --> 01:11:54,220

And when I wake up with this great idea and I'm like, got to write it down, got to write

1182

01:11:54,220 --> 01:11:55,220

down before I forget it.

1183

01:11:55,220 --> 01:11:56,700

And then I'm like, I can sleep now.

1184

01:11:56,700 --> 01:12:02,260

And then the next day I could sit down and focus on it and just do what I got to do to

1185

01:12:02,260 --> 01:12:07,260

make it happen.

1186

01:12:07,260 --> 01:12:16,220

Yeah, no, thanks for sharing like what you've got coming up to the things you're working

1187

01:12:16,220 --> 01:12:17,220

on.

1188

01:12:17,220 --> 01:12:19,420

Cause that's something I think I like to know what people are up to.

1189

01:12:19,420 --> 01:12:24,300

And then people can, if they, you know, pique their interests, they can follow along and

1190

01:12:24,300 --> 01:12:25,300

see what's going on.

1191

01:12:25,300 --> 01:12:26,300

Yeah, absolutely.

1192

01:12:26,300 --> 01:12:28,100

And I'm sure you're following along on that project.

1193

01:12:28,100 --> 01:12:30,740

That's just spectacular.

1194

01:12:30,740 --> 01:12:34,860

I hope that it will speak to you and others as well.

1195

01:12:34,860 --> 01:12:40,020

And yeah, I hope that it will develop and grow into something a bit more than just an

1196

01:12:40,020 --> 01:12:41,020

Instagram account.

1197

01:12:41,020 --> 01:12:45,540

I could keep the account and don't get banned off of it.

1198

01:12:45,540 --> 01:12:49,060

Oh gee, now good on you.

1199

01:12:49,060 --> 01:12:51,580

Thank you so much for coming on.

1200

01:12:51,580 --> 01:12:52,580

I've just had such a...

1201

01:12:52,580 --> 01:12:53,580

Thank you so much for having me.

1202

01:12:53,580 --> 01:12:54,580

It's been an amazing impact.

1203

01:12:54,580 --> 01:12:55,580

It's been a pleasure.

1204

01:12:55,580 --> 01:12:56,580

It has, it's been lovely.

1205

01:12:56,580 --> 01:13:00,420

And I feel like now I'm starting to get like sore cheeks from laughing.

1206

01:13:00,420 --> 01:13:06,620

You know, you smile so much, you're like, which is a great sign of a great chat.

1207

01:13:06,620 --> 01:13:08,740

Thank you and all the best.

1208

01:13:08,740 --> 01:13:13,300

And I'm really inspired by what you're doing.

1209

01:13:13,300 --> 01:13:14,620

Good for you.

1210

01:13:14,620 --> 01:13:15,620

Really awesome.

1211

01:13:15,620 --> 01:13:16,620

That's awesome.

1212

01:13:16,620 --> 01:13:17,620

I'm so happy.

1213

01:13:17,620 --> 01:13:23,100

Cause you know, knowing that you can make just a difference for one person or to help

1214

01:13:23,100 --> 01:13:27,740

one person is huge and sometimes we forget about it because we're all like, oh, I need

1215

01:13:27,740 --> 01:13:32,820

to become like an established authority in my field and in order to be successful, right?

1216

01:13:32,820 --> 01:13:38,860

I need to have like millions of followers and have that little blue tick on my account.

1217

01:13:38,860 --> 01:13:41,740

And you know what?

1218

01:13:41,740 --> 01:13:42,740

It's all yes.

1219

01:13:42,740 --> 01:13:43,740

It is, isn't it?

1220

01:13:43,740 --> 01:13:44,740

It really is.

1221

01:13:44,740 --> 01:13:45,740

Yeah.

1222

01:13:45,740 --> 01:13:46,740

Yeah.

1223

01:13:46,740 --> 01:13:51,220

Because you can make a difference in your small, you're already making a difference

1224

01:13:51,220 --> 01:13:53,540

to someone in your family, aren't you?

1225

01:13:53,540 --> 01:13:54,540

You know?

1226

01:13:54,540 --> 01:13:55,540

I mean, yeah, that's so true.

1227

01:13:55,540 --> 01:13:57,020

I think we overlook that a lot, don't we?

1228

01:13:57,020 --> 01:14:03,380

We forget how powerful and how impactful we can be on that small circle of people that

1229

01:14:03,380 --> 01:14:04,380

live with us.

1230

01:14:04,380 --> 01:14:05,740

We don't need to be huge in the world.

1231

01:14:05,740 --> 01:14:09,860

I mean, it would be great to be able to make a huge difference, wouldn't it?

1232

01:14:09,860 --> 01:14:14,580

But even making it to like, you know, who would have thought my chat with you would

1233

01:14:14,580 --> 01:14:18,460

have helped inspire you all the way in Australia?

1234

01:14:18,460 --> 01:14:23,820

To maybe take that step and look at yourself in a different way.

1235

01:14:23,820 --> 01:14:25,860

I mean, who would have thought?

1236

01:14:25,860 --> 01:14:26,860

And yet there we go.

1237

01:14:26,860 --> 01:14:27,860

Yeah, that's it, isn't it?

1238

01:14:27,860 --> 01:14:31,340

And that makes me feel like I've accomplished today.

1239

01:14:31,340 --> 01:14:32,340

Yeah.

1240

01:14:32,340 --> 01:14:34,380

I love that.

1241

01:14:34,380 --> 01:14:40,140

It's another lesson on sort of adjusting our lens, I guess, of what our expectations

1242

01:14:40,140 --> 01:14:42,340

might be or what we want to achieve out of something.

1243

01:14:42,340 --> 01:14:43,620

Why are we doing what we're doing?

1244

01:14:43,620 --> 01:14:45,340

And yeah, I love that.

1245

01:14:45,340 --> 01:14:47,340

That's a whole other story, isn't it?

1246

01:14:47,340 --> 01:14:49,420

Just go on, go on, go on.

1247

01:14:49,420 --> 01:14:52,420

Oh my goodness.

1248

01:14:52,420 --> 01:14:54,300

Thanks for your company today.

1249

01:14:54,300 --> 01:14:59,700

If you've enjoyed this episode, I'd love you to consider leaving us a review, following

1250

01:14:59,700 --> 01:15:05,600

or subscribing to the podcast, or even sharing it with a friend you think might be interested.

1251

01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:09,600

If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on the podcast, please get in touch

1252

01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:12,220

with us by the link in the show notes.

1253

01:15:12,220 --> 01:15:18,220

The music you heard featured on today's episode was from Alemjo, which is my new age ambient

1254

01:15:18,220 --> 01:15:24,180

music trio comprised of myself, my sister Emma Anderson and her husband John.

1255

01:15:24,180 --> 01:15:28,380

If you'd like to hear more, you can find a link to us in the show notes.

1256

01:15:28,380 --> 01:15:43,820

I'll catch you again next week for another chat with an artistic mum.